Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[BawWatchin]

Just now, HTG said:

I wouldn't back him. He should have stood back whilst suspended. Winning that seat adds nothing for me. 

Disagree. He still stands 100% with the party, even if he's no longer represented under an SNP banner. He's been the victim of a propagated smear and shouldn't be discounted because of it.
Give me him over some liebour candidate everytime.

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Kyle said:

Tonight at 10pm.

We can then assess the damage and, hopefully, it'll give tactical voters the focus required to oust as many tories as possible.

From the little I know about MRP I don't think it segments people into the pro and anti trans and Jews spectrum, so probably won't be much help in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.

Edited December 10, 2019 by welshbairn

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Disagree. He still stands 100% with the party, even if he's no longer represented under an SNP banner. He's been the victim of a propagated smear and shouldn't be discounted because of it.
Give me him over some liebour candidate everytime.

He’s been the victim of nothing. He’s an anti-semite who compared transgender people to paedophiles. Backing him in any form is shameful and just shows desperation.

[BawWatchin]

12 minutes ago, Sir Tarmo Kink said:

He’s been the victim of nothing. He’s an anti-semite who compared transgender people to paedophiles. Backing him in any form is shameful and just shows desperation.

Are you saying no transgender people out there are pedophiles? Quite a claim if so.

Nothing anti-semitic about pointing out the blatantly obvious. Anti-semitism is an attack of Judaism. He's never said anything negative about the jewish religion.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Are you saying no transgender people out there are pedophiles? Quite a claim if so.

Nothing anti-semitic about pointing out the blatantly obvious. Anti-semitism is an attack of Judaism. He's never said anything negative about the jewish religion.

 

Nobody claimed that, and that is quite the hilarious deflection by you. He compared trans people to paedophiles and you’re still saying you have to back him. Disgusting.

[BawWatchin]

Just now, Sir Tarmo Kink said:

Nobody claimed that, and that is quite the hilarious deflection by you. He compared trans people to paedophiles and you’re still saying you have to back him. Disgusting.

He didn't "compare" trans people to pedophiles. He simply pointed out a concern over new laws that would allow dodgy men dressed in skirts to waltz their way into female safe spaces. Now I know that doesn't account for the vast majority of transgender people, but the law would allow for this to happen. That's what he was getting at. Your attempt to smear him for what is a very real concern is pathetic.

[Rodhull]

6 minutes ago, Sir Tarmo Kink said:

 

Nobody claimed that, and that is quite the hilarious deflection by you. He compared trans people to paedophiles and you’re still saying you have to back him. Disgusting.

Yet you're fine with Boris winning despite his history of racist and homophobic comments?

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

He didn't "compare" trans people to pedophiles. He simply pointed out a concern over new laws that would allow dodgy men dressed in skirts to waltz their way into female safe spaces. Now I know that doesn't account for the vast majority of transgender people, but the law would allow for this to happen. That's what he was getting at. Your attempt to smear him for what is a very real concern is pathetic.

He repeatedly used one news story of a trans ‘paedophile’ to, as you would say, ‘smear’ the entire trans community by repeatedly saying trans rights trample all over women’s rights. There’s nothing to stop a male predator going wherever he wants whether he is posing as a women or not. It’s blatant transphobia from Hanvey and he’s using the paedophile argument to get backers, when in actual facts he just opposes trans rights.

[dorlomin]

7 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

 He simply pointed out a concern over new laws that would allow dodgy men dressed in skirts to waltz their way into female safe spaces

This is pretty much the argument used by Republicans across the US to try to exclude transgender people from the toilets of the sex they identify with. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathroom_bill

Its funny how all these people with no track record of feminist activism suddenly come popping out of the wood work and banging on about "female safe spaces" when trans people come into the conversation.

 

[BawWatchin]

2 minutes ago, Sir Tarmo Kink said:

He repeatedly used one news story of a trans ‘paedophile’ to, as you would say, ‘smear’ the entire trans community by repeatedly saying trans rights trample all over women’s rights. There’s nothing to stop a male predator going wherever he wants whether he is posing as a women or not. It’s blatant transphobia from Hanvey and he’s using the paedophile argument to get backers, when in actual facts he just opposes trans rights.

Absolute rubbish. You're quite deliberatey taking a very black and white view over this. Raising concerns over fundementally flawed laws that put people at risk isn't "transphobia". Criticizing Soros isn't "antisemitic" either. His religion is utterly irrelevant to the criticism. It's just very shan to try and use it to shut up any Criticism.

[BawWatchin]

2 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

This is pretty much the argument used by Republicans across the US to try to exclude transgender people from the toilets of the sex they identify with. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathroom_bill

Its funny how all these people with no track record of feminist activism suddenly come popping out of the wood work and banging on about "female safe spaces" when trans people come into the conversation.

Have you ever taken the time to speak with women over this and how they feel about the idea of ANY man being able to legally walk into a female changing room? Because that's what this law effectively allows.

I would assume not. Because if you had, you'd know that women are the most terrified of all at this prospect and they're quite right to be.

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Have you ever taken the time to speak with women over this and how they feel about the idea of ANY man being able to legally walk into a female changing room? Because that's what this law effectively allows.
I would assume not. Because if you had, you'd know that women are the most terrified of all at this prospect and they're quite right to be.

It’s not ‘any man’ it’s transgender women. The idea that a male paedophile/rapist/predator wouldn’t enter the toilets because of a female sign is naivety in the extreme. Predators in the public will always do what they want to do whether they are dressed up as the opposite sex or not.

As has been said, it’s always funny to see people suddenly sticking up for female rights as soon as trans people become involved. It’s as if they are transphobic or something...

[Rodhull]

1 minute ago, Sir Tarmo Kink said:

 

It’s not ‘any man’ it’s transgender women. The idea that a male paedophile/rapist/predator wouldn’t enter the toilets because of a female sign is naivety in the extreme. Predators in the public will always do what they want to do whether they are dressed up as the opposite sex or not.

As has been said, it’s always funny to see people suddenly sticking up for female rights as soon as trans people become involved. It’s as if they are transphobic or something...

Again why are you aghast at this but fine with Boris's racism and homophobia? It's as if you're only against things if they're done by people who oppose Brexit?

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Again why are you aghast at this but fine with Boris's racism and homophobia? It's as if you're only against things if they're done by people who oppose Brexit?

I’m not fine with Boris’ racism and homophobia. I am not a huge fan of Boris Johnson but I am not a huge fan of any of the other leaders or their anti-semitism, racism, transphobia and homophobia within their parties either.

I’m also not fine with SNP voters repeatedly labelling others as racist but are fine with backing anti-semites and transphobes. It’s hypocrisy at its finest but nothing less than I would expect when most SNP voters don’t believe in democracy.

[dorlomin]

28 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Anti-semitism is an attack of Judaism. He's never said anything negative about the jewish religion.

This is an excellent video covering the wide spread of 1920/30s fascist ideologies. But I have selected a segment that shows the use of "Rothschilds control the world". It is in a segment about the NSDAP's use of the idea to stir antisemitism.

Replacing Soros with Rothschilds is the same thing. This has been done to death. 

Quote

A state-sponsored campaign led by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has employed a wide range of historical anti-Semitic tropes to accuse philanthropist George Soros of engaging in conspiracies to support and deceive the public about nonwhite immigrants. Orbán has accused Soros, a Jew whose family survived hostile conditions during Hungary's Nazi occupation, of being a Nazi himself, and has introduced legislation known as the "Stop Soros law" to criminalize organized support of immigrants. These fabrications have become popular with the alt-right in Europe and the US.^[78] Orbán's 2018 campaign slogan was, "Christianity is Europe's last hope",^[194] saying, "our worst nightmares can come true. The West falls as it fails to see Europe being overrun."^[195]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory

It links to people like Andries Brevik who make the same analogies. Trying to invent your own definition of "antisemitism" to justify a candidate in an election, one that ignores some of the biggest events of 20th century history is just dumb. 

[Anonapersona]

3 minutes ago, Sir Tarmo Kink said:

 

I’m not fine with Boris’ racism and homophobia. I am not a huge fan of Boris Johnson but I am not a huge fan of any of the other leaders or their anti-semitism, racism, transphobia and homophobia within their parties either.

I’m also not fine with SNP voters repeatedly labelling others as racist but are fine with backing anti-semites and transphobes. It’s hypocrisy at its finest but nothing less than I would expect when most SNP voters don’t believe in democracy.

 

And here's me thinking you had Boris on speed dial.

[Dundee Hibernian]

1 minute ago, MixuFixit said:

Not the IHRA definition.

The author of the IHRA definition has stated that it is being misused by politically motivated groups and individuals. It's previously been covered in the Politics Forum here.

[Granny Danger]

The issue of anti-Semitism has been blown out of all proportion in the last couple of years and, in particular, in the run up to this election.

It has got far more coverage that issues such as universal credit and child poverty.  It has also got more coverage than all other sorts of discrimination put together.

Anti-Semitism, like any form of discrimination, is indefensible but it is being used as an attack on Labour and a prop for the Tories.

[Rodhull]

Just now, Sir Tarmo Kink said:

 

I’m not fine with Boris’ racism and homophobia. I am not a huge fan of Boris Johnson but I am not a huge fan of any of the other leaders or their anti-semitism, racism, transphobia and homophobia within their parties either.

I’m also not fine with SNP voters repeatedly labelling others as racist but are fine with backing anti-semites and transphobes. It’s hypocrisy at its finest but nothing less than I would expect when most SNP voters don’t believe in democracy.

So where are your posts saying anyone supporting Johnson are disgusting? If what you're ultimately saying is that all the parties are as bad as each other then how can you start throwing the moral shade at someone just because they're supporting the party you oppose.

[Granny Danger]

5 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Not the IHRA definition.

 

2 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

The author of the IHRA definition has stated that it is being misused by politically motivated groups and individuals. It's previously been covered in the Politics Forum here.

This has been pointed out to Mixu on more than one occasion.  Maybe he has problems processing new information.