Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[dorlomin]

And to interrupt festivities with some polling. 

 

Ashcroft is clearly a very biased source but the take away is not far shy of most people have not paid much attention to the sturm and drang of this election. 

I think its kind of about normal for an election. It does explain why big announcement or big blow ups on social media tend to have such a small impact on polling. Most of the hike in current Tory polling has come from the polling companies now only asking which party you would vote for for parties in the constituency, so the Brexit Parties pull out meant people were no longer given the choice in all Tory held seats. Though it is likely that Farages pulling out may have dropped some of his support in Labour held seats also going to the conservatives. 

I suppose the great hope is that many of the "dont knows" will start shifting towards Labour in the coming week as they get off the fence with an election looming. This has been an expectation of many since Oct 31. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by dorlomin

[Kuro]

36 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

11 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I hate to break this to you but you are screwed on 3 points as regards independence.
1. We are not going to be getting permission for Indyref2 any time soon and nobody seems to have a clue how to change that.
2. There's no polling evidence of much change in opinion since 2014 despite everything which has happened since then so even if we get Indyref2 there's no evidence at all that we'll get a different result. Then the issue really would be permanently put to bed.
3. Even if we get independence, the country absolutely isn't ready. We have too much dependency. I've spoken elsewhere about the chip on shoulder problem and the attitude problem of blaming others for our problems, the culture of avoiding responsibility and the endless grievance culture as well. We are not entrepeneurial enough. We have a population with too many expecting a socialist utopia of milk and honey. When that inevitably fails to materialise those same people will bring the country to its knees with their negativity and their anger.
The timing is all wrong and people are not ready IMO. I won't vote for independence until I see evidence of that changing.
 

Point number 3 really sums your depressing attitude up

Lol I have that utter fanny on ignore but see.it.Cause you quoted it.  He's just a deeply.unhappy and bitter man waffling utter shite, but.its.funny he moans about negativity lol.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

And to interrupt festivities with some polling. . 

I suppose the great hope is that many of the "dont knows" will start shifting towards Labour in the coming week as they get off the fence with an election looming. This has been an expectation of many since Oct 31. 

If I could pretend to be neutral for a bit, I've been impressed by the Labour spokespeople's mastery of their brief, dealing with quite forensic questioning of their policies with common sense and pretty robust explanations. Whereas, as a neutral, the Tories come over as shamefaced lying toerags.

[dorlomin]

[welshbairn]

More from Ashcroft's polling here. One interesting nugget is that 52% of those who voted Tory in 2017 and Remain in the referendum haven't made their mind up who they'll vote for.

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/have-you-decided-yet-who-will-win-the-debate-will-you-put-up-with-boris-to-get-brexit-week-2-of-my-general-election-dashboard/#more-16221

[Jeff Venom]

One of the most advanced and resource rich nations on the entire planet, but we're not ready for independence.
Goodness me [emoji2357]

[AUFC90]

One of the most advanced and resource rich nations on the entire planet, but we're not ready for independence.
Goodness me [emoji2357]

Stop being so positive all the time.

[Malky3]

2 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

Any form of customs declaration point means a border by definition is most definitely not "soft". A soft border has no customs clearance procedure in place.  Using your example all UK airports are "soft" borders currently.  This isn't about soft and hard anyway it's about whether there is a physical border or not. There most definitely is between Norway and Sweden and most definitely isn't on the Island of Ireland so stop talking utter keich on subjects you clearly have absolutely no knowledge on what-so-ever.

Erm no. If you've been following the whole Brexit situation you will see that it absolutely is about "hard" and "soft" borders. The fact that a border exists is a simple statement of fact. Its how you administer the crossing of those borders that is relevant. Those of us old enough to remember what it used to be like travelling through Europe when all of the countries had border crossings, immigration control and customs know and understand what exactly what the EU is insisting on - and it definitely isn't a just a metal structure over the road with a nothing to declare channel. 

[BawWatchin]

38 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

The fact that a border exists is a simple statement of fact. Its how you administer the crossing of those borders that is relevant.

That's not what was said back in 2014 m8 when the English said there would be a hard border between Scotland and England following the resurrection of Hadrian's Wall. Nothing about different ways it could be "administered".

[DAFC.]

That's not what was said back in 2014 m8 when the English said there would be a hard border between Scotland and England following the resurrection of Hadrian's Wall. Nothing about different ways it could be "administered".

Pretty sure there was threats of putting the army on the border to stop us rebellious Scots from going in to Engerland.

[dorlomin]

4 hours ago, welshbairn said:

More from Ashcroft's polling here. One interesting nugget is that 52% of those who voted Tory in 2017 and Remain in the referendum haven't made their mind up who they'll vote for.

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/have-you-decided-yet-who-will-win-the-debate-will-you-put-up-with-boris-to-get-brexit-week-2-of-my-general-election-dashboard/#more-16221

Its broadly similar for all other than Con Leave. 

Boris knows his audience and has built a position on Brexit and a campaign around it.

Labours problems on the issue have been done to death as the party with the biggest split across its voters. Chickens are coming home to roost.  

 

[welshbairn]

33 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

Its broadly similar for all other than Con Leave. 

Boris knows his audience and has built a position on Brexit and a campaign around it.

Labours problems on the issue have been done to death as the party with the biggest split across its voters. Chickens are coming home to roost.  

 

Not sure if that's true, haven't seen the figures on the Tory split, I suspect it's been underestimated.

Edited November 20, 2019 by welshbairn

[Mastermind]

One of the most advanced and resource rich nations on the entire planet, but we're not ready for independence.
Goodness me [emoji2357]

But I thought we were all living in third-world poverty conditions and squalor thanks to nasty Westminster. I wish the Nats would make their minds up.

[Dan Steele]

 

Being resource rich and being in control of the resources are not the same thing, of course.

[John Lambies Doos]

But I thought we were all living in third-world poverty conditions and squalor thanks to nasty Westminster. I wish the Nats would make their minds up.

You really are a mint

[Billy Jean King]

17 hours ago, Malky3 said:

Erm no. If you've been following the whole Brexit situation you will see that it absolutely is about "hard" and "soft" borders. The fact that a border exists is a simple statement of fact. Its how you administer the crossing of those borders that is relevant. Those of us old enough to remember what it used to be like travelling through Europe when all of the countries had border crossings, immigration control and customs know and understand what exactly what the EU is insisting on - and it definitely isn't a just a metal structure over the road with a nothing to declare channel. 

What on earth are you wittering on about - my response was to a post of your stating there was no physical border between Norway and Sweden - there is.  As usual after been told the error of your ways you are turning your whole argument on it's head. You really should stop posting on subjects you clearly know nothing about.  I travel in Europe plenty and unless going from Schengen to Schengen I still encounter borders with immigration and customs now so again harping on as if you didn't since back in the day is total bullsh1t. 

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said:

What on earth are you wittering on about - my response was to a post of your stating there was no physical border between Norway and Sweden - there is.  As usual after been told the error of your ways you are turning your whole argument on it's head. You really should stop posting on subjects you clearly know nothing about.  I travel in Europe plenty and unless going from Schengen to Schengen I still encounter borders with immigration and customs now so again harping on as if you didn't since back in the day is total bullsh1t. 

Liar! 

Heres what you actually responded to

On 19/11/2019 at 03:38, Malky3 said:

Norway isn't in the customs union, but it has an open border with Sweden. 

In theory though, two countries operating independently should be able to set up any customs arrangement as they wish. Neither Ireland nor the UK want a hard border - but because Ireland doesn't enjoy the sovereignty to make it's own agreements they HAVE to follow the wishes of the EU. The same would be true for Scotland if it decided to come out of the UK but sought to rejoin the EU. It wouldn't matter what we want, the EU would dictate their rules to us anyway. 

At no point did I claim there was no physical border. 

Also at no point did I hark back to a borderless past. You've made that shite up too. 

If you are a man at all you'll apologise, but you're a Nationalist. My expectation is you'll hide for a bit saying nothing. 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Malky3

[Jeff Venom]

But I thought we were all living in third-world poverty conditions and squalor thanks to nasty Westminster. I wish the Nats would make their minds up.

Post liked by Malky.
[emoji23]

[Blue-Toon]

Brexit Party support has crumbled -

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/uk-election-polls-tories-have-clear-16point-lead-over-labour-as-lib-dems-and-brexit-party-hit-by-big-a4292851.html

[Billy Jean King]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

Liar! 

Heres what you actually responded to

At no point did I claim there was no physical border. 

Also at no point did I hark back to a borderless past. You've made that shite up too. 

If you are a man at all you'll apologise, but you're a Nationalist. My expectation is you'll hide for a bit saying nothing. 

 

I am a what - you are now defining people by their political leanings ????

Open border / no physical border are pretty much one in the same.  You can pass freely through both. Where you are getting that I said there was a borderless past from too I really don't know.  Your exact words were "Those of us old enough to remember what it used to be like travelling through Europe when all of the countries had border crossings, immigration control and customs" suggests to me that you were implying that the same thing doesn't happen now which is exactly the point I was making.  Bar Schengen to Schengen it does. Fact there not lies.

Anyway Im fed up pulling you up and I will tell you exactly what I'm doing, putting you on ignore. I don't intend to be called a liar or defined by your perceived political leanings even on an internet forum. Think yourself blessed in years on here I think your are only the third to earn my ignore, Cheerio !