newcastle broon Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: Limiting the LL's initial numbers to16 maximum selected by application made any junior defection very difficult to argue for in the context of a club AGM and that pretty much guaranteed that the LL was going to be dominated initially by former EoS premier clubs, along with some SoS clubs and boys clubs in the west. If there had been a willingness to accomodate all credible applicants in a new Lowlands pyramid structure in a similar manner to what just happened with the WoS things may have unfolded very differently. This flaw in the process was pointed out by people (particularly by Clydebank fans) on here at the time it was all unfolding. Tom Johnston has a lot to answer for, but he wasn't the only person involved that was playing a cynical game. Spartans were heavily involved in the blazer politics and were in it primarily to provide a platform for Spartans to be promoted to the SPFL rather than to create an all-encompassing pyramid. As far as I'm aware there were no boys clubs in the LL when it was founded? All clubs whether west south or east had a chance to apply. In fact if I mind correct there was only 12 to start wi? Plenty clubs had plenty chances to get in the LL,I reckon the biggest issue for many and still is,is the licensing issue which is ever changing? You might want to vent your fury further North as well,yes Spartans were heavily involved but so were Cove who were desperate for a pyramid to be set up. That seems to have been forgotten about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Stag Nation said: What has the name change got to do with licensing? They suddenly became a brand new club on social media then kinda retracted their statement if I recall? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: As far as I'm aware there were no boys clubs in the LL when it was founded? All clubs whether west south or east had a chance to apply. In fact if I mind correct there was only 12 to start wi? Plenty clubs had plenty chances to get in the LL,I reckon the biggest issue for many and still is,is the licensing issue which is ever changing? You might want to vent your fury further North as well,yes Spartans were heavily involved but so were Cove who were desperate for a pyramid to be set up. That seems to have been forgotten about. No boys club when the LL was founded. EKFC was set up in 2010 and saw the merger of boys clubs in the the town to give them an infrastructure. But they'd been fielding an adult amateur side from 2011-12 in the SAFL. Only 12 were selected with the ability to meet licencing standards for 2014-15 the priority. 20+ Juniors clubs were noted to say they were interested in the pyramid. 27 clubs would put in a note of interest for the inaugral Lowland League. 17 would eventually apply. 12 were selected. At the time there were only 3 fully licenced clubs in the Lowland League area, each one were guaranteed a place by default. Those were Spartans, Preston Athletic, and Threave Rovers. Going by the Lowland League write up those 3 were actually offered a spot in the league and didn't have to apply. So there might have been 20 clubs whittled down to the original 12. https://web.archive.org/web/20131108011853/http://slfl.co.uk/ Quote Welcome to the website of The Scottish Sun Lowland Football League. The Scottish Sun Lowland Football League (commonly known as the Lowland League) is a newly-created league of 12 football clubs operating in the Scottish Lowlands, to be drawn from teams previously competing in the South of Scotland, East of Scotland and Junior leagues. The Lowland League was founded by a unanimous vote of members of the Scottish FA on 11 June 2013, who had for some time intended on instituting a football pyramid including promotion and relegation from Scottish football’s senior divisions down to its junior and amateur levels. While most clubs were invited to submit bids to join, Preston Athletic, Spartans and Threave Rovers were offered automatic entry as they were already fully licensed by the Scottish FA. While 27 clubs had registered their interest, the Lowland League received 17 applications to join. After the meeting on 17 June, it was announced there would be 12 teams in the league, and that they would be Dalbeattie Star, East Kilbride, Edinburgh City, Gala Fairydean Rovers, Gretna 2008, Preston Athletic, Selkirk, Spartans, Stirling University, Threave Rovers, Vale of Leithen & Whitehill Welfare. The member clubs agreed to appoint a Board to run the league and this Board is made up of: Chairperson: Andrew Waddell Vice Chairperson: Andrew Renwick Treasurer: Craig Williamson Board Members: John McCabe, Andrew MacDonald. Kenny Murray As well as this the Board have a appointed a Secretarial team who are David Baxter, Richard Osborne, Kenneth McLean and Thomas Brown. The Secretarial team are responsible for administering the League, Publicity, Communications, Fixtures and all administration duties. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Nation Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: They suddenly became a brand new club on social media then kinda retracted their statement if I recall? Social media has nothing to do with licensing either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, Stag Nation said: Social media has nothing to do with licensing either. Aye ok Basically a scenario where maybes a club disappear totally from their origins and become a new club wi a new name. Licenses including books are supposed to be checked every so often,everything must've been ok then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said: No boys club when the LL was founded. EKFC was set up in 2010 and saw the merger of boys clubs in the the town to give them an infrastructure. But they'd been fielding an adult amateur side from 2011-12 in the SAFL. Only 12 were selected with the ability to meet licencing standards for 2014-15 the priority. 20+ Juniors clubs were noted to say they were interested in the pyramid. 27 clubs would put in a note of interest for the inaugral Lowland League. 17 would eventually apply. 12 were selected. At the time there were only 3 fully licenced clubs in the Lowland League area, each one were guaranteed a place by default. Those were Spartans, Preston Athletic, and Threave Rovers. Going by the Lowland League write up those 3 were actually offered a spot in the league and didn't have to apply. So there might have been 20 clubs whittled down to the original 12. https://web.archive.org/web/20131108011853/http://slfl.co.uk/ So basically more bull shit from Lurky then 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selfassemblyshire Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 That's rich coming from a nomadic outfit like East Stirling....Merchiston Park to Firs Park to Ochilview to Falkirk Stadium and starting off with a name like Britannia??...apparently an offshoot of a local cricket club!! Also, the first club ever to be relegated out of the national league system...so maybe have a wee look at your clubs checkered past before jumping on a new outfit that is still very much in its embryonic journey. Oh dear. You clearly missed the joke, there was a whole scenario last season where Berwick made that exact quote.Anyway, dry your eyes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: So basically more bull shit from Lurky then The only "boys club" that could be considered to have joined is BSC Glasgow, as Cumbernauld Colts also had an adult age amateur side before applying. Not entirely sure about the Spartans playing politics. Since they were already guaranteed a spot and the main rep they seem to have had on committees is a John McCabe. Who would sit on the inaugral LL Committee as a board member. But as near as I can tell never sat on the SFA committees around that time as Andrew Renwick usually repped the EoSFL. The 2013 Annual Review for the SFA listed the boards at the time. Considering the names and faces I don't think there would been much change in the period of 2012 into 2013 when the Lowland League was being set up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: So basically more bull shit from Lurky then Should you not be on the EoS subforum now? Your club is never going to get anywhere near tier 5 again now that ex-junior clubs are belatedly in the pyramid. According to FWF's info that you quoted "20+ Juniors clubs were noted to say they were interested in the pyramid". If a different approach had been used on how the LL was setup there could easily have been a mass defection from the SJFA similar to what happened later in the EoS when conferences were provided to accomodate all interested clubs at tier 6. That would probably have made it more difficult for Spartans to reach the Club 42 playoff though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Should you not be on the EoS subforum now? Your club is never going to get anywhere near tier 5 again now that ex-junior clubs are belatedly in the pyramid. According to FWF's info that you quoted "20+ Juniors clubs were noted to say they were interested in the pyramid". If a different approach had been used on how the LL was setup there could easily have been a mass defection from the SJFA similar to what happened later in the EoS when conferences were provided to accomodate all interested clubs at tier 6. That would probably have made it more difficult for Spartans to reach the Club 42 playoff though... The focus for the Lowland League was always on getting the clubs closest to licencing standards at the time than on the field strength. That's what was needed to initiate the SPFL playoff and why it didn't begin until the second season. That requirement whittled the numbers right down across all the leagues which is why there were only 12 original members. Having the SPFL playoff was the priority not a well rounded pyramid system. Which is why there was the offer of just tacking on everything at Tier 6, Juniors included. Then work from there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Should you not be on the EoS subforum now? Your club is never going to get anywhere near tier 5 again now that ex-junior clubs are belatedly in the pyramid. According to FWF's info that you quoted "20+ Juniors clubs were noted to say they were interested in the pyramid". If a different approach had been used on how the LL was setup there could easily have been a mass defection from the SJFA similar to what happened later in the EoS when conferences were provided to accomodate all interested clubs at tier 6. That would probably have made it more difficult for Spartans to reach the Club 42 playoff though... Never knew you could only input into a forum your team is in. You seem very bitter about my team wi that statement when I havent even brought them into it, al no sleep tonight now Dont let my facts get in your way though,now what about Cove being the biggest instigator of a LL pyramid.You seem very quiet on that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 36 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: Never knew you could only input into a forum your team is in. You seem very bitter about my team wi that statement when I havent even brought them into it, al no sleep tonight now Dont let my facts get in your way though,now what about Cove being the biggest instigator of a LL pyramid.You seem very quiet on that one. You used to make plenty of posts about how I shouldn't be posting on the LL subforum because I wasn't a supporter of any of the teams involved, so why not follow your own advise and stick to the EoS subforum from now on? I have posted plenty of time about the role of Cove Rangers and Alan McRae on the pyramid, but that isn't directly relevant to the mechanics of how the LL was formed. That was mainly in the hands of Spartans and to a lesser extent Threave Rovers and Preston Athletic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: That was mainly in the hands of Spartans and to a lesser extent Threave Rovers and Preston Athletic. The mechanics of the Lowland League all comes down to the SFA and the then SFL as the framework was being worked on for years before it happened. Those clubs just happened to jump at the chance when it came. Which isn't exactly surprising since Spartans and Preston had applied to the SFL most recently in 2008. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 48 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: You used to make plenty of posts about how I shouldn't be posting on the LL subforum because I wasn't a supporter of any of the teams involved, so why not follow your own advise and stick to the EoS subforum from now on? I have posted plenty of time about the role of Cove Rangers and Alan McRae on the pyramid, but that isn't directly relevant to the mechanics of how the LL was formed. That was mainly in the hands of Spartans and to a lesser extent Threave Rovers and Preston Athletic. I don't need you to dictate where I post thanks very much. You have been against the LL since the start. Mechanics of the LL have you no read Fairweather fans quotes? You're just no getting it. Cove had a massive impact on the LL because they were ambitious enough to want SPFL football. The only chance they had of getting that was by a LL getting formed, this meaning the play off was inaugurated. Likewise with Spartans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: Cove had a massive impact on the LL because they were ambitious enough to want SPFL football. The only chance they had of getting that was by a LL getting formed, this meaning the play off was inaugurated. Can't remember if the SJFA Questionnaire on pyramid entry was Dec 2017 or Jan 2018 but it was in that time frame. By that point 4 full seasons of the Lowland League had been played and were in the middle of season 5. The only clubs to respond saying they met Entry level club licencing were: Aberdeen East End Aberdeen University Banchory St Ternan Banks O'Dee (already licenced) Bonnyrigg Rose Camelon Juniors Carluke Rovers Cumnock Hill of Beath Hawthorn Girvan (already licenced) Linlithgow Rose (already licenced) Musselburgh Athletic Newtongrange Star Petershill Port Glasgow The senior clubs didn't need to do any politicking. Even years later the Juniors were unsure or unwilling to engage with licencing to know how achieveable it was for their clubs. Its not exactly a surprise that all the East clubs named all made the move to the EoSFL in 2018. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 And a final blast from the past. Here's the SFA's Professional Game Board (then the SFA, SPL, SFL, and SHFL) plan for the pyramid from October 2011. From a post by Prorege on the old NLM forum. Quote League Restructuring and a Pyramid Structure for Scottish Football At its meeting on 29th September,2011, the Professional Game Board agreed a five point plan to formally develop proposals for League restructuring: - The merger of the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League to create a single league structure An all through distribution model covering all 42 league clubs The creation of an additional relegation / promotion place between the top division and the division below it Enhanced parachute payments to soften the financial blow of relegation for clubs relegated out of the top division A 'pyramid structure' that will open up access to SFL Division Three from below Subsequent discussion by the Scottish FA Board of Directors, related to point 5 above, has reached broad consensus on the following "pyramid principles" - The creation of a new Scottish FA "Highland" and "Lowland" Super League structure immediately below the SFL Third Division, comprising clubs from the existing structures of Scottish Highland Football League, East of Scotland League, South of Scotland League and Scottish Junior FA Maintenance of the existing SHFL, ESL, SSL and SJFA League structures, immediately below the dual Super Leagues, with provision for existing Leagues to open membership to clubs within the Scottish Amateur FA Promotion and relegation based upon sporting merit and the achievement of "club" standards as defined by National Club Licensing and the Scottish FA Quality Mark system ln order to formally progress the development of the key principles above, the Professional Game Board is requested to approve the following actions: - The commencement of formal consultation between the Scottish FA, SPL, SFL, Scottish Highland Football League, the East of Scotland League, the South of Scotland League and Scottish Junior FA regarding the composition and launch of a new dual "Super League" structure with effect from season 2014-15 (with club applications being sought from 2013-14) An internal review of the National Club Licensing and Scottish FA Quality Mark services and resource supporting the proposed pyramid structure The completion of a signed "Memorandum of Understanding" by all relevant League bodies and stakeholders giving formal commitment to the agreed principles of the new Pyramid Structure for Scottish Football Stewart M. Regan Chief Executive October,2011 https://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forum/gforum.cgi?post=366959 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 On 30/07/2020 at 12:36, newcastle broon said: They suddenly became a brand new club on social media then kinda retracted their statement if I recall? Listening to a podcast with the guy Ewing just now and this is a valid point. He seems to view it as a completely new club when they changed name. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: Listening to a podcast with the guy Ewing just now and this is a valid point. He seems to view it as a completely new club when they changed name. When they came out with the badge last year that was something that stood out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballermk Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Please just go bust disappear and never come back nobody will ever notice or care. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 26 minutes ago, ballermk said: Please just go bust disappear and never come back nobody will ever notice or care. What would u have said had you been around in the 20s and 30s when new clubs with no tradition came about. No history like the teams from the 1800s. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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