Independent Unionism.

[DublinMagyar]

I can think of 3 family members who are still (and probably always will be) Labour voters. However, all 3 are also pro independence. Genuine question for you all. Is it just my (admittedly strange) family like this or do you know of Labour/libdem/even Tory voters who back Indy?

[Wee Willie]

19 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said:

 

I can think of 3 family members who are still (and probably always will be) Labour voters. However, all 3 are also pro independence. Genuine question for you all. Is it just my (admittedly strange) family like this or do you know of Labour/libdem/even Tory voters who back Indy?

 

A question back at you.
Fair do's to the labour voters but how does it work?
Do they vote labour but hope the SNP win or do they...?

[Wee Willie]

4 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Many many SNP supporters voted No in 2014.

Many supporters of other parties voted Yes.

Why do so many people on both sides still fail to separate the SNP and Indyref?

Because you cannae separate the SNP and Indyref.
If you want Independence then you must support the SNP.
Where do you get your figures regarding 'Many many SNP supporters voted No in 2014' and 'Many supporters of other parties voted Yes'

We've only ever had one vote in an Independence referendum.
But we've had umpteen elections where clearly the SNP are top dogs.

Can you really imagine Labour or the Tories gaining a majority of seats in elections in Scotland and you claiming that they really want independence.

 

[madwullie]

There were polls that showed not all snp supporters voted yes. 

It's pretty obvious, but a referendum isn't a general election. There are clearly people who could support most of the policies of the labour party but not their stance on independence. Hence the vote labour in a GE and yes in a referendum. 

Similarly, there are SNP supporters who think they are good in governance but don't believe in  independence. These people will quite obviously be SNP and no voters. 

Edit: to answer the op, my wife doesn't vote snp but turned into a very soft yes on the week of the vote last time round. She'll still vote yes. 

[DublinMagyar]

A question back at you.
Fair do's to the labour voters but how does it work?
Do they vote labour but hope the SNP win or do they...?

All 3 voted yes 2014/ Labour 2015
1 voted SNP 2016, don't know for the other 2. It's contradictory to me but I think understand their thinking. Just wonder if it's feasible for these minority opinions in LAB/CON/LIB to be heard or gain traction?

[DublinMagyar]

37 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Many many SNP supporters voted No in 2014.

Many supporters of other parties voted Yes.

Why do so many people on both sides still fail to separate the SNP and Indyref?

I understand this, what I'm really getting at is, would it  be possible for the YES members/voters of the Unionist parties to ever become a majority or at least influential enough for one of those parties to officially embrace Indy?  I truly believe that Labour in particular and Lib-Dems to some extent would see very significant gains in vote share, maybe even the tories? (probably not). Of course this would probably require wholesale clearouts of the (Scottish) party leaderships and I've no real idea who would replace them.  

[Wee Willie]

20 minutes ago, madwullie said:

There were polls that showed not all snp supporters voted yes. 

It's pretty obvious, but a referendum isn't a general election. There are clearly people who could support most of the policies of the labour party but not their stance on independence. Hence the vote labour in a GE and yes in a referendum. 

Similarly, there are SNP supporters who think they are good in governance but don't believe in  independence. These people will quite obviously be SNP and no voters. 

Edit: to answer the op, my wife doesn't vote snp but turned into a very soft yes on the week of the vote last time round. She'll still vote yes. 

I can understand and accept your answer but oaksoft said
Many many SNP supporters voted No in 2014.
Many supporters of other parties voted Yes.

but I find that difficult to believe.

16 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said:

All 3 voted yes 2014/ Labour 2015
1 voted SNP 2016, don't know for the other 2. It's contradictory to me but I think understand their thinking. Just wonder if it's feasible for these minority opinions in LAB/CON/LIB to be heard or gain traction?

I can understand their reasoning there (I think) but tell them if they vote SNP and for Indy then I'll probably join them later in their socialist party.
But I'm no promising

[Wee Willie]

3 minutes ago, DublinMagyar said:

I understand this, what I'm really getting at is, would it  be possible for the YES members/voters of the Unionist parties to ever become a majority or at least influential enough for one of those parties to officially embrace Indy?  I truly believe that Labour in particular and Lib-Dems to some extent would see very significant gains in vote share, maybe even the tories? (probably not). Of course this would probably require wholesale clearouts of the (Scottish) party leaderships and I've no real idea who would replace them.  

But I think it would take Independence for that to happen.
Labour/Lib Dem/Tory parties without the unionist tag and after Indy it's a different ball game.

[DublinMagyar]

4 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

But I think it would take Independence for that to happen.
Labour/Lib Dem/Tory parties without the unionist tag and after Indy it's a different ball game.

I think the Tories would certainly remain Unionist, LAB/LIB well, they might split from the UK parties and accept Indy but still maintain links with their southern cousins.

[Wee Willie]

21 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You are confusing the need to vote SNP at a general election and voting intention at a referendum.

You are correct - I am confused.

19 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I seem to remember figures suggesting about 20% of SNP voters voted No but I might be wrong. It might be higher than that.

 

16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yes but after independence as posted above by Wee Wullie.

There will probably be lots of Labour people in the party who support Indy but are terrified that voicing this will end their careers because it implies implicit support for the SNP.

For a bit of balance I believe there are probably plenty of SNP party people who do not support independence but keep quiet for the same reason,

I'm diabetic but I'll take these posts with a pinch of salt

[NotThePars]

It wouldn't surprise me if lower-rung SNP party members were No voters simply cause the SNP is the behemoth of the Scottish government and as such will attract careerists regardless of their beliefs. 

[madwullie]

Hang on Willie, do you actually think that everyone who votes snp votes yes and everyone who votes for con/lab/lib etc all vote no? 

[Granny Danger]

4 hours ago, DublinMagyar said:

 

I can think of 3 family members who are still (and probably always will be) Labour voters. However, all 3 are also pro independence. Genuine question for you all. Is it just my (admittedly strange) family like this or do you know of Labour/libdem/even Tory voters who back Indy?

 

Doesn't surprise me in the least.

[McSpreader]

4 hours ago, madwullie said:

There were polls that showed not all snp supporters voted yes. 

It's pretty obvious, but a referendum isn't a general election. There are clearly people who could support most of the policies of the labour party but not their stance on independence. Hence the vote labour in a GE and yes in a referendum. 

Similarly, there are SNP supporters who think they are good in governance but don't believe in  independence. These people will quite obviously be SNP and no voters. 

Edit: to answer the op, my wife doesn't vote snp but turned into a very soft yes on the week of the vote last time round. She'll still vote yes. 

That's what she tells you just  to keep the peace! 

[McSpreader]

1 hour ago, madwullie said:

Hang on Willie, do you actually think that everyone who votes snp votes yes and everyone who votes for con/lab/lib etc all vote no? 

He's a nice fella but not the brightest!

[DublinMagyar]

Would, say, a Labour MP/MSP be expelled from the party if they came out in favour of Indy?

[jmothecat]

I know one Tory, life-long on the right of the Tory party at that, who is also a big independence supporter. He also vocally supported Brexit.

I know also know precisely one SNP voter who voted no, and again was very ardently no, despite voting SNP both before and after the referendum.

I think there are a number of pro-Indy Tories and Labourites and a handful of pro-Union SNP supporters but largely most pro-Indy people I know also vote SNP or green and most pro-union people I know vote Labour or Tory.

I would guess, though I may be wrong, that there are more Tory voting nationalists than Labour voting ones purely because the SNP seem closer politically to the progressive side than the conservative side so convincing Pro-Indy former Labour voters to come to the SNP seems like an easier task than pro-Indy Tories who may be unwilling to support a party who are perceived to be progressive. That's pure speculation though.

[mizfit]

I know one Tory, life-long on the right of the Tory party at that, who is also a big independence supporter. He also vocally supported Brexit.

I know also know precisely one SNP voter who voted no, and again was very ardently no, despite voting SNP both before and after the referendum.

I think there are a number of pro-Indy Tories and Labourites and a handful of pro-Union SNP supporters but largely most pro-Indy people I know also vote SNP or green and most pro-union people I know vote Labour or Tory.

I would guess, though I may be wrong, that there are more Tory voting nationalists than Labour voting ones purely because the SNP seem closer politically to the progressive side than the conservative side so convincing Pro-Indy former Labour voters to come to the SNP seems like an easier task than pro-Indy Tories who may be unwilling to support a party who are perceived to be progressive. That's pure speculation though.

I was a conservative yes voter, I changed to voting for the SNP after an argument with a Tory councillor in the days running up to it.

Got a few strange looks from my pals when I said I was voting yes even though I'd voted Conservative previously. [emoji23]

[invergowrie arab]

8 hours ago, Wee Willie said:

Because you cannae separate the SNP and Indyref.
If you want Independence then you must support the SNP.
Where do you get your figures regarding 'Many many SNP supporters voted No in 2014' and 'Many supporters of other parties voted Yes'

We've only ever had one vote in an Independence referendum.
But we've had umpteen elections where clearly the SNP are top dogs.

Can you really imagine Labour or the Tories gaining a majority of seats in elections in Scotland and you claiming that they really want independence.

 

I waste spend about 3 months of each of the last three years canvassing. I can assure you a not insignificant number of SNP voters dont support independence.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

There will be a significant number of ex-Labour voters who now vote SNP but not for independence - Scottish Labour
are for many a bastion of cronyism, incompetence and do f**k-all for ordinary people. For many the SNP is the only choice they have, especially since the collapse of the trot nats.