19QOS19 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 When we were promoted, the club had a decision to make. Do we make a real go of this and try to re-establish ourselves as a Championship team, or do we stay part-time and hope for a miracle. If the club is serious about getting back to where we want to be, they need to do far, far better than the amateurish nonsense that we've seen this season. We have, ultimately, made an arse of it again and it's chiefly down to the lack of ambition shown and the bizarre willingness to accept that we were 'punching above our weight' all along. Ayr have never been an established Championship side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrTroopMajor Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Moonster said: You don't need a miracle, you need a decent manager and a decent squad. Being full time didn't save Livi from relegation because they were being managed by an idiot and had a fairly poor squad. Same goes for Morton when they went down. Alan Adamson had a team of League 1 players rooted to the bottom of this Division by November, we brought in someone who actually had a clue about football tactics and pumped everyone with the same squad of League 1 players. That seemed like a miracle at the time but really we were so far under-performing with the team we had. All Murray did was bring in professionalism, belief and tactical organisation - all of which a decent manager should posses. Ayr fans are painting full-time as the holy grail and the reason for going down when the reality is that Ian McCall wasted his budget and built an unbalanced squad. Trusting him with a full-time budget may have been an even bigger disaster. In my view, being a part time side automatically makes us a last resort for players who, as much as possible, try to hold out for something better. What you say about McCall is right though. Dreadful handling of the small budget that we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrTroopMajor Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said: Ayr have never been an established Championship side. We were established in the second tier under Gordon Dalziel, and were one place away from entry into the SPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, AyrTroopMajor said: We were established in the second tier under Gordon Dalziel, and were one place away from entry into the SPL. I imagine he's being pedantic about the branding "Championship" which has been in place for four years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 48 minutes ago, AyrTroopMajor said: In my view, being a part time side automatically makes us a last resort for players who, as much as possible, try to hold out for something better. Nonsense. Sure, there will be some players holding out for full-time deals but being one of only two part time clubs at this level you had an opportunity to take the best part time players in the country and offer good deals to experienced players nearing the end of the career. It makes you a last resort for a handful of people but it makes you one of the most attractive places for a whole lot more. If McCall has opted to chase around unrealistic targets (which going by the rumour mill he has) and found it difficult trying to convince those players to play for Ayr then that's his problem, it's not a problem with being part time in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrTroopMajor Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Nonsense. Sure, there will be some players holding out for full-time deals but being one of only two part time clubs at this level you had an opportunity to take the best part time players in the country and offer good deals to experienced players nearing the end of the career. It makes you a last resort for a handful of people but it makes you one of the most attractive places for a whole lot more. If McCall has opted to chase around unrealistic targets (which going by the rumour mill he has) and found it difficult trying to convince those players to play for Ayr then that's his problem, it's not a problem with being part time in this league. You mean like Gary Harkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Just now, AyrTroopMajor said: You mean like Gary Harkins? All about choosing the right ones. Harkins has been a luxury player everywhere he's been, it's hardly surprising that he hasn't worked out for a team at the bottom of the league. We made a mistake in signing Stevo from you in the summer, difference being that we fixed that problem in January. Your problems are brought on by your manager, not by your part time status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 41 minutes ago, AyrTroopMajor said: You mean like Gary Harkins? Well yes, that's exactly what he means. Unfortunately Harkins descent into at least looking overweight and unfit was far from unforseeable. He has all the ability going though and should have been a very good signing but his past at St Mirren and Dundee has shown his work-rate to be questionable at times. McCall has worked with him before and presumably knew what he was getting. He looked very good at Palmerston in Week 2 of the season. Presumably though he's become considerably less effective since. Certainly as Moonster says, when we were part time at this level (which we were from 2002 until McCall effectively took us full time in early 2007) the selling point of being the best part time club in the country was invaluable in getting players to play for us despite geography being against us. You can probably get a few young full time players in the mix too provided your manager / coach is full time. I think going full time is most likely not going to be much better unless you do it seriously and move into a market competing for players with the QoS, Raith, Morton's of the world, even Livingston. Doing it on the cheap with largely kids is a very difficult route to get right and be competitive. Airdrie haven't exactly blasted their way through the division below on that model this season even if they did move into 3rd on Saturday. They are far from certain to make the playoffs. Generally speaking, the very best part time side is usually better than the worst full time side so unless you are in a position to move in the relative short term to being a competitive full time team it's unlikely to be any sort of "cure all". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: All about choosing the right ones. Harkins has been a luxury player everywhere he's been, it's hardly surprising that he hasn't worked out for a team at the bottom of the league. We made a mistake in signing Stevo from you in the summer, difference being that we fixed that problem in January. Your problems are brought on by your manager, not by your part time status. The manager is the one who chose to remain part time so both IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, itzdrk said: The manager is the one who chose to remain part time so both IMO Do you believe Ayrs' part time status is the reason they are in the relegation spots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrunitedfw Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Do you believe Ayrs' part time status is the reason they are in the relegation spots? No, it's the fact we have Ian McCall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Problemo Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 You don't need a miracle, you need a decent manager and a decent squad. Being full time didn't save Livi from relegation because they were being managed by an idiot and had a fairly poor squad. Same goes for Morton when they went down. Alan Adamson had a team of League 1 players rooted to the bottom of this Division by November, we brought in someone who actually had a clue about football tactics and pumped everyone with the same squad of League 1 players. That seemed like a miracle at the time but really we were so far under-performing with the team we had. All Murray did was bring in professionalism, belief and tactical organisation - all of which a decent manager should posses. Ayr fans are painting full-time as the holy grail and the reason for going down when the reality is that Ian McCall wasted his budget and built an unbalanced squad. Trusting him with a full-time budget may have been an even bigger disaster. Excellent post! Do you believe Ayrs' part time status is the reason they are in the relegation spots? No, it may not have helped but the main reason is as described above. We have no wide players and no pace whatsoever. You look at Dumbarton's recruitment...Stirling, McCrorie (who would have came back to us if he didn't dislike working with McCall) Two players bursting with pace. No reason we couldn't have targeted them. Even when we were desperate for a striker, Dumbarton signed Vaughan. The same guy who was excellent against us in the first game of the season and tore us to bits. We eventually sign a wide player in McDaid and in our match at Dumbarton he starts him up front and Harkins out wide. Utterly crazy. Signing McKenna was also another brutal decision as our back four looked decent then went to utter shit after he completely jettisoned Meggatt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: Do you believe Ayrs' part time status is the reason they are in the relegation spots? I don't think being full time is the be all and end all that others are making out. There is an argument to be made though that the amount of injuries we suffer and the length of time it takes for our players to recover from injuries (both of which have been ridiculous the past 2 seasons) would have improved with full time football. Or it maybe it wouldn't have made much difference, I don't think Dumbarton have had as bad an injury record as us. Maybe McCall has just assembled a squad of injury prone players, or maybe our physio/fitness department is just a shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 hour ago, The Moonster said: Do you believe Ayrs' part time status is the reason they are in the relegation spots? It is definately at best 50% of the problem, yes. I don't believe turning full time gives you an automatic bypass of relegation though but you get time to work on things which is something this team desperately needs, our defensive positioning for crosses into the box and attacking positioning is horrendous. But i doubt we would have a similar team if FT. It would be much younger and that's what McCall didn't want to deal with. He himself is a huge part of the problem by not signing players for positions we had zero players in the squad for or seeking pace anywhere in the team just for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 32 minutes ago, itzdrk said: It is definately at best 50% of the problem, yes. I don't believe turning full time gives you an automatic bypass of relegation though but you get time to work on things which is something this team desperately needs, our defensive positioning for crosses into the box and attacking positioning is horrendous. But i doubt we would have a similar team if FT. It would be much younger and that's what McCall didn't want to deal with. He himself is a huge part of the problem by not signing players for positions we had zero players in the squad for or seeking pace anywhere in the team just for a start. The more time argument is fair enough, there's no doubt part time teams are up against it in that respect. You say that if you were full-time then your squad would likely be younger, I imagine probably closer to Airdrie's model than it would be the likes of Raith or Queens. If that's the case then it's not hard to see why part time was the preferred option - compete with Dumbarton/Alloa in signing the best part time players or battle it out with Airdrie/Livingston for the full-time players that nobody else wants or young guys who haven't been given a chance at Premiership/Championship clubs. The players he signed and the positions he plays them in is far more of an issue than the team not being full time IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrTroopMajor Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 There are performances this season that were so shambolic that, if it had been a full-time team, the players and management would have sat down and talked about what went wrong in great detail. For Ayr and Dumbarton, this simply isn't possible because we only have 4 hours per week where the players are together, and of course training takes precedence. It puts us both at a massive disadvantage, and also illustrates how well Dumbarton have done to retain their Championship status year on year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, AyrTroopMajor said: There are performances this season that were so shambolic that, if it had been a full-time team, the players and management would have sat down and talked about what went wrong in great detail. For Ayr and Dumbarton, this simply isn't possible because we only have 4 hours per week where the players are together, and of course training takes precedence. It puts us both at a massive disadvantage, and also illustrates how well Dumbarton have done to retain their Championship status year on year. Do Ayr not train three times a week? One of your players told me at the weekend they did. It's not that different considering we train four times a week, albeit one of them is a double session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpInTheAyr Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 McCall's signing policy this season has been a disaster, out of all the problems at Ayr this is the one that's had the most effect. Having a more balanced squad I have no doubt would have resulted in at least 3 or 4 more points and have us in a better position in the league. Over the last few games it looked like Ayr had largely moved on from the earlier season tactic of punting long balls to small players unable to win it in the air, or getting to the final third and either passing it backwards or not having anyone to pass forward to, but Saturday brought that all back. Don't think I've ever seen a player as slow as Farid, when he runs it looks like he's running waist deep in water, even though he's crocked he's probably our best chance of getting goals and if he's out now then it's entirely predictable what'll happen, Ayr will go back to playing like they did a few months ago with the one shot on target and the long balls to no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 51 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: Do Ayr not train three times a week? One of your players told me at the weekend they did. It's not that different considering we train four times a week, albeit one of them is a double session. Its either Mon,Tues,Thurs or Tues, Thurs, Fri. Also occasionally Saturday morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.