POLL - Should Junior Clubs be part of the Pyramid Structure?

[LeeKRR1878]

I can see points from both camps. Imagine 10 years after a pyramid put in place we had Talbot, Lithgae in league 1 and the likes of say Clyde and Queen's Park playing in the 'junior' leagues (whatever they'd be called). It could be something very exciting

But I get the financial argument too. Firstly to obtain the licence most clubs in the juniors would have to spend on stadium upgrades to have modern toilets, disabled access and so on. A lot of the clubs in the lower divisions of juniors simply cannot afford it and it could cripple them before even thinking of moving up leagues. Floodlights too would need to be installed.

In England if a club wins the division but cannot or does not think they'll be able to cope financially a division above due to travel and things then they can refuse to accept the promotion. This too could happen in Scotland easily. But the difference between England and Scotland is if an English club runs into some financial difficulty then the FA help them by giving them some money. I understand the English FA are far richer than the SFA. But in Scotland if a club runs into financial difficulty then for some weird reason the SFA feel the best thing to do is punish them by putting them in more debt by fining them. There's no wonder in the past 10 years or so we've saw 3 or 4 teams go into administration with 1 going into it twice.

I think for it to really work you'd need the SJFA and the SFA to sit and discuss plans in great detail and take time to think of the best plan. To rush into it and fling in the first idea could be a disaster.

[LeeKRR1878]

Also I agree get the Colt teams to f***!

[Glenconner]

1 hour ago, The Mantis said:

Good points. You don't get frisked though. The only time I've ever been frisked is at English games. I think your problem is with the ugly sisters not with seniors as a whole. I used to watch the other erse cheek from you but I wised up many, many years ago. ICT fans and County fans can drink together before a game no problem. A lot of the alcohol ban and segregation nonsense is due to the behaviour of the ugly sisters in the first place. Yes, seniors are overpriced but try paying £50+ in England where the standard is far higher but the entertainment isn't.

Since I can't get to ICT every week I pick my games. I like the juniors but I couldn't watch that level every week even for £6. People go on about £12 to watch League 2 when you can see Talbot or Pollok or Lithgae for £6. Fair enough, but for every Kilsyth v Bonnyrigg cup tie I've seen games, especially in the lower divisions, where the standard is woeful, they should have paid me £6. So let's not kid on that every Junior game is a bargain.

Children were frisked by security at a recent Pollok v Kilbirnie game.

The child's father was, quite rightly, on here complaining about it.

[WaffenThinMint]

8 hours ago, kilbowie2002 said:

 

^^^^ So wound up you managed to make a complete arse of using the quote function.

Big difference between a football director & a club committee member champ: football directors own the club which they run through the Board of Directors - clubs run by a committee are elected by those with club membership or co-opted by the committee at its discretion. Not a matter of mere semantics as you think.

"interviews as part of my undergrad degree"  - doubtless from the same institution Oaksoft got his "PhD", offering courses in bakedbeanology, etc. so your fellow mouth breathers can kid yourselves on you have real qualifications. That you don't appear to have a clue what "sycophant" means actually doesn't exactly inspire confidence you have any qualifications of remote merit, let alone tertiary.

[archieb]

9 hours ago, Glenconner said:

Children were frisked by security at a recent Pollok v Kilbirnie game.

The child's father was, quite rightly, on here complaining about it.

Disgraceful accusation.

The security staff perfectly reasonably asked to see inside a kid's bag, that's all - totally different from "children" (plural) being "frisked".

If you don't realise that you're an idiot.

[Shanner]

"Bobby Skidmarks said"  would be the name of my band if I ever formed one. 

[Shanner]

1 minute ago, kilbowie2002 said:

What an utter utter psychopath.

Very astute. 

[parsforlife]

Yeah, I'm fine with merging with the Lowland League - I'd prefer just the eastern teams in it, but fair enough. But say we rose (no pun intended) to League Two - £12 to watch my team play Stirling, Clyde and Elgin? Or the wilds of Edinburgh City in that terrible stadium? That's a lot less attractive to me than paying £6 to watch them play Bo'ness, Bonnyrigg, Whitehill and Spartans.

Do you support junior football or Linlithgow?

 

If it's junior football that's not going to go away, by definition in a pyramid for every team leaving the lower levels their another joining it.

 

If it's Linlithgow how on earth can you not want to see them perform at as high of level as you can? Surely every fan desires progress? We all want to do better next season as we have this one, I've never known a fan to not want to see their side improve.

 

Your complaints about price are irrelevant, you are a member owned club, pricing will only go up if the fans support it.

 

[ex-german exile]

Your complaints are irrelevant, you are a member owned club, pricing will only go up if the fans support it.

Are his complaints irrelevant, if he is a member of the member owned club?

[parsforlife]

Are his complaints irrelevant, if he is a member of the member owned club?

Sorry, should have said complaints about pricing, see edit.

[WaffenThinMint]

23 hours ago, kilbowie2002 said:

What an utter utter psychopath. If you have absolutely any issues about whether or not I did indeed conduct the research my dissertation should be in the archives of Strathclyde university, since you seem to be into going to all sorts of creepy lengths to point score on an internet forum. I know exactly what sycophant means, you absolutey crave approval from people on this forum, its clear from the things revealed about you and your own actions on this forum that you are absolutey desperate for approval on the internet, I worry you may actually have a psychological disorder.
I'm going to stick you on ignore because you absolutely give me the creeps. I've absolutely no problem disagreeing with people on here and appreciate others have differing views much like my Kilsyth friend from earlier but you truly are a worrying person and i've better things to do with my time than argue about Junior football with someone who isn't even a junior football fan about minutiae of my clubs history, especially when they are wrong.

The only thing that is "absolutey" around here is you having another meltdown after your latest trolling attempt (by your own admission "I just like the bite i get from you") has blown up in your face. Face it son, you're just one of life's losers. Accept it and move on.

Ah, even better - you've gone over to GN looking for the "big kids" to back you up ! Glorious! Nice to get confirmation though that your "dissertation" never existed, thanks!

23 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Do you support junior football or Linlithgow?

If it's junior football that's not going to go away, by definition in a pyramid for every team leaving the lower levels their another joining it.

If it's Linlithgow how on earth can you not want to see them perform at as high of level as you can? Surely every fan desires progress? We all want to do better next season as we have this one, I've never known a fan to not want to see their side improve.

Your complaints about price are irrelevant, you are a member owned club, pricing will only go up if the fans support it.

^^^^ This. The time comes when all fledglings must leave the comfort of the nest, especially when they've long outgrown it to the detriment of the rest.

[Glenconner]

18 hours ago, archieb said:

Disgraceful accusation.

The security staff perfectly reasonably asked to see inside a kid's bag, that's all - totally different from "children" (plural) being "frisked".

If you don't realise that you're an idiot.

Seriously, searching a 4 year old child's bag going into a Junior game!!!

Wonder what that dodgy G4 mob Pollok hired hoped to find?

Btw, "perfectly reasonably", where exactly, Vichy France?

 

[archieb]

3 hours ago, Glenconner said:

Seriously, searching a 4 year old child's bag going into a Junior game!!!

Wonder what that dodgy G4 mob Pollok hired hoped to find?

Btw, "perfectly reasonably", where exactly, Vichy France?

 

That's the way security works, pal.

Ladeside fans may not be ISIS or Boko Haram and XXX lager may not be Semtex but if there's a bag search, bags get searched.

Try telling airport security that wee Jimmy/Ahmed is only 4 and see if they nod him through!

[Glenconner]

5 minutes ago, archieb said:

That's the way security works, pal.

Ladeside fans may not be ISIS or Boko Haram and XXX lager may not be Semtex but if there's a bag search, bags get searched.

Try telling airport security that wee Jimmy/Ahmed is only 4 and see if they nod him through!

Archie, what in heavens are they serving in the Quaich these days.

[BS7]

Gordon's illustration may be why a lot of people watch junior football but fewer and fewer are actually doing it. The overheads never go down. The gate prices in the east increased by £1 after years of standing still. 
Everyone has a choice in terms of what they watch, what they'll pay, what they'll put up with. But it is an incontrovertible fact that the higher up the pyramid you go, the more people will come through your gates, the better you'll be ableto make your facilities and the better a standard of player you can bring in. 
I want to see my club progress on and off the pitch. If that means some come in and some go out along the way then so be it. I'll be there either way but if others only want to watch it so far and no further that's a choice they'll make when the time comes. We're all different. 

I'd like to see your empirical evidence regarding gates in juniors v the pyramid.

I doubt for example that Bo'ness, bonnyrigg, Linlithgow or Kelty would attract bigger crowds in tiers 4,5,6 of the pyramid. I think crowds would actually fall.

[BS7]

Colt teams will happen imo, if they are committed to their Project Brave plan which they need to 100% imo so there's no excuses then they will get in. To appease the present senior clubs it will be HL or LL.
The game here can have a bright future top and bottom if positive changes can be made coupled with the rumoured increased tv deal and possible increase in cup sponsorship.

Colt teams won't happen imho because fans won't pay full price to watch someone else's reserve side. Fans consultations have been quite vigorous on that.

[BS7]

The juniors as far as I can see have a pretty good regionalized pyramid. Maybe the seniors could speak to them for some tips, as the they don't seem to have a clue?

[HoBNob]

I'd like to see your empirical evidence regarding gates in juniors v the pyramid.

I doubt for example that Bo'ness, bonnyrigg, Linlithgow or Kelty would attract bigger crowds in tiers 4,5,6 of the pyramid. I think crowds would actually fall.

Have a look at the gates Edinburgh have gotten since getting promoted, with the increase in coverage and higher standard of football there's no reason why crowds wouldn't go up.

It's became apparent that they're are some properly shite fans "supporting" there club, imagine not following them anymore because they had the brass neck to try improve themselves. Any fans ditching there club for that aren't to be missed, they'll have Bugged out eventually for some other shite excuse.

[Hillonearth]

6 hours ago, Grant228 said:

 

Have a look at the gates Edinburgh have gotten since getting promoted, with the increase in coverage and higher standard of football there's no reason why crowds wouldn't go up.

 

Isn't part of that down to novelty, though? Opposition fans who maybe don't travel regularly away will be making a point of going to see the new team in the league, groundhoppers will be wanting to "tick" it, and there will be a lot of casual walk-up support. Of course crowds were always going to go up this season - if you're going from playing the likes of the University sides who literally don't bring a soul to playing established League sides who'll maybe bring 100 away fans, there's 100 of a jump right there.

Good on them, but it remains to be seen how much genuine new support they've attracted. Better to judge it after two or three years of SPFL football, especially if they end up being perennial League 2 strugglers.

It's no different to a new team joining the Juniors...the first couple of seasons when Clydebank came back they were pulling in some remarkable attendances knocking on four figures, but that's stabilised down to a regular few hundred now. Same with Gartcairn - their first couple of friendlies suggested there was a huge latent support, but once they'd bedded in their attendances have settled down to double-digit crowds more usual for the division they're playing in.

[BS7]

Have a look at the gates Edinburgh have gotten since getting promoted, with the increase in coverage and higher standard of football there's no reason why crowds wouldn't go up.

It's became apparent that they're are some properly shite fans "supporting" there club, imagine not following them anymore because they had the brass neck to try improve themselves. Any fans ditching there club for that aren't to be missed, they'll have Bugged out eventually for some other shite excuse.

Edinburgh didn't play in the juniors - I'd fully expect them to pull in more in the league as opposed to the lowland league and the east of Scotland league.