Richie Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Add to that my Facebook feed has a fair amount of hate for sturgeon, 'SHE doesn't speak for me', 'once in a generation', 'worse off than greece'. The problem with this particular demographic is that they have no intention of debating the issue or taking on board contrary arguments/evidence.The 'bankrupt' argument etc destroys their credibility immediately.You could present them with irrefutable evidence that Scotland would become the most prosperous nation on earth and they would still not change their position.In my experience, it comes from clinging on to the last fragments of an Empire and the associated superiority complex it brings and also personal grevience against Sturgeon etc, although I hugely suspect the latter is a result of the former in any case.It astounds me the glee with which some undermine and underestimte Scotland's potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, Richie said: The problem with this particular demographic is that they have no intention of debating the issue or taking on board contrary arguments/evidence. The 'bankrupt' argument etc destroys their credibility immediately. You could present them with irrefutable evidence that Scotland would become the most prosperous nation on earth and they would still not change their position. In my experience, it comes from clinging on to the last fragments of an Empire and the associated superiority complex it brings and also personal grevience against Sturgeon etc, although I hugely suspect the latter is a result of the former in any case. It astounds me the glee with which some undermine and underestimte Scotland's potential. From my purely subjective view there's an element of blind panic from the No side this time there wasn't last time around. They also seem to have got nastier quicker than before too, which suggests we're in for an interesting time. It might be down to them already having used most of the weapons in their arsenal; the scare stories, the lovebombing, the Vow and so on... I've already said my personal preference was to wait maybe ten years and let demographics do the job for us, but things have obviously changed dramatically in the intervening time since the last referendum. The hubristic tone of WM as they clumsily attempt to begin to get a deal done with an EU which is increasingly irritated and vindictive towards them might work just as well for us in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 10 hours ago, oaksoft said: In order for my head to have well and truly gone I would need to be brainless enough to post vicious personal abuse all over a public forum using my own first name and then tell everyone I had a PhD in a highly niche area and then tell them which University I studied it at so that I could be found identified about 5 minutes by someone with half a brain given that most supervisors have this annoying habit of publicising who their former students are. Of course my head could have well and truly gone to the extent that I was posting that stuff and HAPPY that people could easily identify me. If I did that then yes I suppose I would have to agree that my head had well and truly gone. Wow, such a normal, well-adjusted response. Maybe you could point out where I've 'viciously personally abused' you? If you'd like me to save you 5 minutes, I'll give you a link to my thesis if you want - it has my full name on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 The problem with this particular demographic is that they have no intention of debating the issue or taking on board contrary arguments/evidence.The 'bankrupt' argument etc destroys their credibility immediately.You could present them with irrefutable evidence that Scotland would become the most prosperous nation on earth and they would still not change their position.In my experience, it comes from clinging on to the last fragments of an Empire and the associated superiority complex it brings and also personal grevience against Sturgeon etc, although I hugely suspect the latter is a result of the former in any case.It astounds me the glee with which some undermine and underestimte Scotland's potential. There easily the most 'nationalistic' people in the entire debate. They totally fail to accept that a huge portion if not a majority of people voting yes aren't actually nationalists, they just want a fair society that Westminster can never offer. Would be interesting to see 10-15 years after indy how these people's attitudes have evolved ( my bet is they'd be first ones waving lion rampants n getting embarrassingly pished on burns night). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 That fucking waxwork c**t Gordon Brown being wheeled out already. Laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 23 hours ago, Gordon EF said: Nah, not at all. It's just one of those phrases that I've noticed a lot of people like to aim at people (not just when talking about independence) when they themselves don't really know what they're talking about. I'm sure there are lots of folk who do understand a bit about economics but there are tonnes of unionists out there who come away with stuff like "The economic arguments in the White Paper just didn't add up for me" and everyone knows fine well they never read it and wouldn't have understood most of the economic material in it anyway. They heard a unionist say that on the telly and are repeating it to make themselves look more intelligent and informed - that's the kind of usage I was taking aim at. I'd agree with you about the majority of the population and I wouldn't try to paint myself as an expert in that area at all either. The economics didn't add up though - I think they won't make the same mistake second time round. I have always said (before my conversion to the Yes side) that it was perfectly possible for the Scottish economy to be successful after independence so long as the right policies were in place. Having currency union (and the idiotic sterlingisation) along with an overoptimistic budget was always a big mistake. There should not be the same list of commitments that could be accused of being uncosted - instead it should be made clear that it will be up to the post-independence Scottish Parliament to democratically decide Scotland's future not an unelected Prime Minister at Westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 15 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: Any economist worth his/her salt should know there are so many variables involved that nothing is a definite. As soon as people start talking about definites I know they are talking shite. As a graduate in that very subject there is nothing more infuriating than getting told that you know f**k all about the subject off someone that has done 1 year of economics at University/read below the line on the Guardian website for approximately 5 seconds. The worst people are the people that didn't finish the full course though, because they never found out that it all comes together in the final year but still think they know everything about the subject. The problem though is that the White Paper tried to present itself in definites which were blown out of the water by changing circumstances. I think it's right to have some basic economic principles but they should never have produced the back-of-an-envelope calculations they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Elixir said: That fucking waxwork c**t Gordon Brown being wheeled out already. Laughable. He looks like a fish that's had a stroke gasping for air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 12 hours ago, oaksoft said: TBH I feel sorry for you Gordon. I don't know too many people with a PhD in something as technically difficult as Chemical Physics (our PhDs are more similar than you would think) who are still so racked with self esteem issues that they simply cannot accept or even tolerate those with differing opinions from theirs. You are one of them though. It's a shame that you don't recognise the problem with the way you talk down to and abuse people the way you do but this is your problem not mine. Tell you what though. I am prepared to bet that face to face you are actually respectful to other people because let's face it, most people wouldn't call others names straight to their face unless they fancied being out of a job pretty sharpish. Your treatment of others online is another matter. Only you can possibly know why that is. 11 hours ago, oaksoft said: In order for my head to have well and truly gone I would need to be brainless enough to post vicious personal abuse all over a public forum using my own first name and then tell everyone I had a PhD in a highly niche area and then tell them which University I studied it at so that I could be found identified about 5 minutes by someone with half a brain given that most supervisors have this annoying habit of publicising who their former students are. Of course my head could have well and truly gone to the extent that I was posting that stuff and HAPPY that people could easily identify me. If I did that then yes I suppose I would have to agree that my head had well and truly gone. 11 hours ago, oaksoft said: In order for my head to have well and truly gone I would need to be brainless enough to post vicious personal abuse all over a public forum using my own first name and then casually release enough personal information to let everyone with half a brain know how I could be easily traced. If I did that then I would have to concede that my head truly had gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: The economics didn't add up though - I think they won't make the same mistake second time round. I have always said (before my conversion to the Yes side) that it was perfectly possible for the Scottish economy to be successful after independence so long as the right policies were in place. Having currency union (and the idiotic sterlingisation) along with an overoptimistic budget was always a big mistake. There should not be the same list of commitments that could be accused of being uncosted - instead it should be made clear that it will be up to the post-independence Scottish Parliament to democratically decide Scotland's future not an unelected Prime Minister at Westminster. A greenie for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 On 3/18/2017 at 12:34, DeeTillEhDeh said: The problem though is that the White Paper tried to present itself in definites which were blown out of the water by changing circumstances. I think it's right to have some basic economic principles but they should never have produced the back-of-an-envelope calculations they did. Yep. Politics and Economics are ultimately serving different purposes. I'm sure the White Paper (or at least the data behind it) would have been jam packed full of caveats and if statements, but as soon politicians get a hold of it it is their job to run with it as if it is a statement of scientific fact. For some reason it is seen as a sign of weakness on their part to do otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Jockie Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I think the only people that haven't yet figured out what utter shite newspapers have become is the older generation. Bit of a generalisation there! Same logic as saying all people who support Rangers are stupid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Wee Jockie said: Bit of a generalisation there! Same logic as saying all people who support Rangers are stupid! All people who support Rangers ARE stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 That's some headline in tomorrows National! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 31 minutes ago, Colkitto said: That's some headline in tomorrows National! You missed the sub headline "that includes you as well Broon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arabdownunder Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 The Guardian plays the "look at the type of loon that supports independence" card https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/20/jim-dowson-back-scottish-independence-patriotic-news-agency-far-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Jim Dowson backs anything that will put a pound in his pocket.He's a slippery c**t with enemies in every 'cause' he gets involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Ted Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 It's astounding the lack of irony or scrutiny these Britnats and loyalist lunatic fringe afford to Westminster, as they get ripped into SNP.Do they need someone from UK government pick pocketing them before they realise how bad they are?Bottom feeders the lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Slightly off-topic but one of British nationalism's biggest buffoons is to become an immigrant. Good riddance to the bag of bile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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