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No Voters - what say you?


jamamafegan

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5 minutes ago, gmca said:

Likewise I'm no expert, but did a course several years ago, part of which dealt with UK and EU law. My memory is that UK law needed to be interpreted based on a strict view of the wording, whereas EU law was to be looked at using the intention behind the reason for the law.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/britain-and-eu-gulf-in-understanding/

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On 30/06/2022 at 08:52, Suspect Device said:

Surely it's fairly obvious why the No voters voted the way they did. They are happy with the status quo.

Some of them would have been afraid of losing their pension (although that was a myth).

Some would have been worried about losing their money in a high tax 'socialist' country.

Some would vote for Britain from purely BritNat ideology - let's call them Rangers fans.

Some might have been swayed by 'the vow' of more power to Scotland without the responsibility of actually going out on our own.

Also, change is scary to some and they would just prefer to stick with what they know. The fear of the unknown is more powerful than the desire to change things possibly for the better. That is the main thing imo. The word possibly. No-one could guarantee an independent Scotland would be so much better and people were afraid to try.

As for a guarantee. The financial agencies that regulate countries credit ratings were quoted as saying in 2014;

Scotland would have triple A status and be around the seventh wealthiest nation in the world, even excluding oil and gas, it would still be a very prosperous.

Which makes you think, where has it all that gone?  I seriously doubt since 1707 we've be getting our fair share.

We are only nation on this planet to discover oil and become poorer as a result. A thought to ponder.

The truth of the matter is Scotland is the "Golden goose that lays the golden egg" and Westminster knows it only too well. That's the only reason that matters to them.

I have many English friends and family and have no anti English sentiment.

What I do have a massive issue with is the level of corruption within Wesminster and more so the Tories.

Its a  turbo charged unadulterated industrial asset stripping of the public purse and sector for their own gain and their cohorts.

Morals are through the floor, its scandal after scandal. Lie after lie. 

Capitalism has lost its moral compass, devoid of ethics. 

Boris lobbying to remove cap on bankers income, just as everyone else has been told "don't ask for wage rises as you will affect inflation"

These are the same bankers that started this shitshow in 2008 and didn't receive any charges or censure for it.

Ten years of austerity followed. Covid didn't help and now the uber pumping of your pocket that begun this year, through fuel charges,  energy charges and all that followed as a domino effect 

I have my gripes with SNP; Ferries, turbines, education, etc.

But, compared with the uber corrupt shitshow at Westminster, it will always be a YES for me.

Better to try another way for eventual betterment of all, than remain stuck in a perpetual f**k up.

Saying "oh well at least it's our f**k up and it's better to stick than twist". Is a very poor defence.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Never said they did.

But who really owns 'oor oil' ?

 

Private companies. 

We could have had a Norway model but Westminster f**ked it at the start

We can argue or agree over points until the sun goes down.

Westminster and Lords is a farce, we won't have to pay for. I'm not saying Holyrood is utopia it's not, but at least we have a chance to make it better.

Westminster is beyond redemption, its stuck in a medieval farce, riven by greed. Eton is a joke and not a very good one.

They are supposed to be custodians not over lords dictating what should happen.

Whether it's UK or Scotland, taxpayers cash should be used to improve society for taxpayers, and frankly its not for decades now and it needs to stop.

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1 hour ago, Snafu said:

The UK owns the oil and use contracted public Ltd oil and gas companies to extract it. It will be interesting to see what happens if we contest that in future. I would not be surprised if future we read about the UKG 'hold oor oil hostage'. If IR2 is successful new contracts will have to be sorted out, I have my doubts us here in Scotland would come out of this without some kind of 'compromise' that benefits England more. England has a lot of political and business weight behind it, I have my doubts we can compete, yes compete for resources with England when they hold all the power.

 

I think there are international laws as to what constitutes a country’s waters. It’s not just a case of “we’ll take that thank you very much”. The seas are split along international borders and then to the median point between land masses. As such oil and gas in Scottish waters would by default become Scottish assets, it’s not something that can be debated or argued over.

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25 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Yeah right, maybe you haven't being paying attention to the current UKG shenanIgans over trade with Northern Ireland, they don't give a crap about International Laws many countries around the globe don't give a f**k about international laws including USA. History has shown when it comes down to making billions there are no rules, capitalism and neo libertarians have seen to that.

This would be, by many many magnitudes, a far far bigger issue which would probably lead to a Third World War, even that shower in Westminster wouldn’t go that far.

No one would allow this to happen as it would set a global precedent. What would then stop the Germans from “claiming” Norwegian oil and gas or China sailing gunships into the Gulf of Mexico? I would suggest the reality would be that Scotland would come to some kind of negotiated deal, favourable to both us and the rUK.

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8 minutes ago, Snafu said:

So you agree then? :lol:

Favourable being matter of opinion on which side of the Hollyrood chamber you sit.

F**kin' 'ell, we'll still get sold out and told it was a favourable deal.

No I don’t agree that we would be shafted. If we have what they need and giving them, our nearest neighbour and probably biggest customer, a very tiny better deal than they would get elsewhere, with guarantees, would be good business and a strong negotiating tool imo.

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On 02/07/2022 at 14:28, gmca said:

Likewise I'm no expert, but did a course several years ago, part of which dealt with UK and EU law. My memory is that UK law needed to be interpreted based on a strict view of the wording, whereas EU law was to be looked at using the intention behind the reason for the law.

Uk law is interpreted purposively. It's just that it's usually assumed that the purpose is what's written.

Only if the statutory language is unclear, contradictory or "manifestly absurd" should anything from outside the rules be brought in. 

But judges have been more and more stretching those definitions recently. 

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1 hour ago, coprolite said:

Uk law is interpreted purposively. It's just that it's usually assumed that the purpose is what's written.

Only if the statutory language is unclear, contradictory or "manifestly absurd" should anything from outside the rules be brought in. 

But judges have been more and more stretching those definitions recently. 

I suppose that supporters of independence might argue on one of those points. For one of the partners in a political Union to only be allowed to ask its own people about their future participation in the Union if someone else says so would fall into the "manifestly absurd" category but I think we'll come back to that after the Supreme Court. 

Edited by Salt n Vinegar
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