Mwell v St J (18/3/17)

[deej]

. They are a very physical side and I felt we allowed ourselves to be bullied. However, with a defence as poor as that they will struggle to win too many games. 

You clearly haven't heard, it's actually St Johnstone that are the physical rugby playing side that bully opponents without ever playing good football. As opposed to sexy, barca-esque styles coming out of Pittodrie and Firhill

[nelsjfc]

Cracking strike from Craig for the second but abysmal defending.

[Radford]

Motherwell will be disappointed at not taking anything from the game but not sure they can feel too aggrieved. I didn't think either of their claims were penalties (amazing how McDonald goes from strong as an ox to hitting the deck at the slightest opportunity - something referees surely see) and what you do in the final two thirds of the park can only count for so much if you defend poorly.

They'll be encouraged by the intensity and aggression they showed when going forward and there were some real periods of sustained pressure (none more so than before the equaliser) from which to draw positives. Last week, Saints bullied Dundee but it was roles reversed yesterday, we were losing the individual physical duels for most of the afternoon. The league table really is the perfect representation of Motherwell, more of a goal threat than any other of the bottom seven but can't do the job at the other end of the park.

I wasn't surprised that Tommy Wright rewarded the side that beat Dundee with starting jerseys again but it was far from as polished a performance and it probably needed the introduction of Davidson when it came. It's not as easy to find positives as it was last week but Cummins should have had another couple of assists (how many times will Craig play that chance for the hat-trick through his mind again) despite not enjoying the same success aerially and Craig reminded us that he's still a goalscoring midfielder that is a worthy member of the squad, that's 52 goals for Saints now. Mannus came in and showed no signs of rust and he's got us the win with the save at the death. I'm happy for him as there has been a bit of revisionism about how he's found himself on the bench. Last season wasn't his best but he started this campaign really well and could have legitimate complaints at not getting the shirt back after he missed the Thistle game because of illness. I still hope he's a Saints player next season but realise finances will probably dictate otherwise; maybe Motherwell were getting a glimpse of their new goalkeeper though?

Maybe not spoilt for positives but you wouldn't criticise too much either as it was a strong Motherwell attacking performance. Foster was given as tough a time as he's had in a while by Frear, it's not often you see him troubled for pace. Swanson, despite a few efforts on goal and finally managing to pull off his first nutmeg in months, is still off the boil and I'm not sure where things are going to go with him. I've said it before but at a bigger club, his form at the moment would have him in the stand.

Saints blew a big opportunity a few weeks ago to crank up the pressure on Rangers (as unlikely as it ever was we'd finish ahead of them) but a chance provides itself now to do the same to Hearts, who face Celtic before coming to Perth, whilst Saints face Accies. An eight-point advantage would give them a lot of work to do.

I love the smell of Azerbaijan in June.

[welldaft]

In future when we are due to play St Johnstone, can we not just award them a 2-1 win and we can get on with our lives.

Yesterday was a case in point. We played well with sustained pressure for several periods of the game, but knew unless we scored a 2nd St Johnstone would and so it proved. Our defending is still a major problem, but maybe not surprising when we are missing 3 first choice defenders and are forced to play players out of position or who are simply not ready yet. 

You need luck also and the Bowman header in 90 minutes sums up that right now - none. How is stayed out. 

I saw enough yesterday to believe we have it in us to avoid bottom 2 places. Probably nothing from Ibrox after the break but then we play 8 cup final against teams below 5th place. The same application and a little more luck will see us pick up enough points. 

 

 

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Radford said:

 Mannus came in and showed no signs of rust and he's got us the win with the save at the death. I'm happy for him as there has been a bit of revisionism about how he's found himself on the bench. Last season wasn't his best but he started this campaign really well and could have legitimate complaints at not getting the shirt back after he missed the Thistle game because of illness. I still hope he's a Saints player next season but realise finances will probably dictate otherwise; maybe Motherwell were getting a glimpse of their new goalkeeper though?

I agree about the way folk turned on Mannus last season (online predominately). He's been great for Saints and deserved better; a lot of the comments were way over the top.

However, I cant see a way he will still be here next season.. if he's a back up keeper he could easily do that for more money at Aberdeen, rangers or hearts. But he's still better than a few starting keepers in the league, so could well be one of our opponents' number 1 next season.

[tree house tam]

Mannus is a better keeper than every team below us in the league have, they'd be lucky to have him. 

[Broon_100]

We're spoiled when it comes to goalkeepers. Our two would walk into most first teams. Mannus went through a spell of letting in soft goals from distance that looked easy meat for a goalkeeper of his standard. His problem was he set his own bar so high with his first few seasons. One of the biggest criticisms of him was cross balls but he had two brilliant punches yesterday so perhaps something he's worked on.

Zander has been lucky to keep his place with a few glaring mistakes but he's been given  (rightly IMO) some leeway because he's young and confidence and game time are critical at this age. However, he clearly has ability and all the attributes you need to be a top goalkeeper so the choice between him and mannus will be tough but it's a luxury I'm happy to have at Saints.

[Casagolda]

5 hours ago, Radford said:

Motherwell will be disappointed at not taking anything from the game but not sure they can feel too aggrieved. I didn't think either of their claims were penalties (amazing how McDonald goes from strong as an ox to hitting the deck at the slightest opportunity - something referees surely see) and what you do in the final two thirds of the park can only count for so much if you defend poorly.

I thought it was a stonewall penalty for Easton's challenge and having watched the MFC YouTube highlights back this morning I've not changed my mind. Perhaps McDonald's penchant for going over easily has went against him there but Easton's clearly got two hands on his back and dragged him to the floor. Second one on Cadden I have sympathy for the ref, almost impossible to tell from his angle if the Saints player got anything on the ball.

Agree though that I don't think we can feel aggrieved at taking nothing from the game. Seen a few folk claiming we were unlucky and deserved something etc but you can't keep giving away cheap goals whilst spurning great chances down the other end and blame it on luck. 

Certainly an improvement and Robinson is definitely getting a bit more out the squad than McGhee was in his final matches and performances have improved but the results are sadly very much still the same. 

Find it hard to be too critical of Robinson though as he can only work with what he's got and there's not much he can do about things like McDonald missing an open goal from 4 yards out or Ferguson's mistake for the 2nd. 

Can't even be too critical of the players yesterday cause just about all of them gave it everything, which hasn't always felt like the case this season. Sadly individual errors and a lack of composure/quality in the final third continues to cost us. 

[Poet of the Macabre]

What a team St Johnstone are. Always in the top six and they've done it again easily this season. So good that the fans are almost disappointed with less than 4th.

[Ron Aldo]

I'd take Mannus in a second.

In saying that, we have Samson in goals and I'd give my gran a game before him so that's not saying much.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Update: I still hate St Johnstone

[deej]

8 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Update: I still hate St Johnstone

[RandomGuy.]

What a team St Johnstone are. Always in the top six and they've done it again easily this season. So good that the fans are almost disappointed with less than 4th.

I'm disappointed we've never pushed for second this season, if we'd sorted out our home form we'd be in that battle.

[Ya Bezzer!]

Watching the highlights I still can't believe that Bowman header didn't go in.

Kinda sums up the whole season for us.  We've not really had much luck since the 'goal' up at Dens Park.

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Poet of the Macabre said:

What a team St Johnstone are. Always in the top six and they've done it again easily this season.

My grandfather once told me there was a time St Johnstone didn't finish top 6 in Scotland.  I just laughed and thought f**k off you blethering old shite.

[Casagolda]

3 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

I'd take Mannus in a second.

In saying that, we have Samson in goals and I'd give my gran a game before him so that's not saying much.

As would I, however it's got to the stage now where i'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for Samson and feel he's being harshly treated. Is he a good keeper? Not really, however the abuse he gets every game is way over the top and folk actually cheering whenever he catches the ball is fucking chronic patter. 

Look at what he had in front of him yesterday; an over the hill injury prone left back who can barely run these days and didn't stop a cross coming into the box all day with both goals originating down his side. An inexperienced 20 year old centre back playing out of position at right back and an inexperienced 20 year old bombscare at centre back who despite their best efforts, looked out their depth yesterday. Whilst I think Samson could/should be more commanding and do more to try and organize those in front of him what chance has he got when you see those in front of him failing to even do the basics like stopping balls coming into the box and tracking runners. 

Samson wasn't even the worst ginger on the park yesterday, Pearson was an empty shirt again and looked thoroughly disinterested throughout yet seems to have escaped all criticism. Mind when he was going to come back in and improve our midfield? Very underwhelming so far, he takes his fair share of stick but even Craig Clay was head and shoulders above him yesterday.   

On a positive note I did enjoy the performance of Frear until he tired in the 2nd half, a proper left winger at last. Pacey, direct and just looked to get past his man and put the ball in the box which he did time and again. Also good to see Bowman have another positive impact off the bench, don't think the change of shaped helped us but I thought he showed up well again and was so unlucky to see his header come back out off the post at the end. 

[Busta Nut]

Yesterday was a bit of a blow.

That first goal we lost was criminal. as the ball went into the corner I watched the boy Craig wander into the box unopposed and thought "surely McHugh sees him?". Apparently not, Hammell was beat too easy, Jules was nowhere, McHugh was oblivious to Craig coming into the box and Ferguson was daydreaming.
 

Skippy was hauled down in the box but the fact he is a cheating wee b*****d and goes down easily at every opportunity will go against him. How he missed that open goal I don't know. He has that bit in him. He is our best player but I've lost count of the amount of times he should have burst the net only for him to fluff a shot or miss the target.

 

The second goal was awful. At the game I thought Ferguson was thinking Craig had followed him in and he tried to be smart and flick it away, on the telly it looks like he just completely misjudged the ball and I am not sure what is worse.

 

We missed some amount of chances yesterday, awful shots that went over or wide when they should have been blootered into the goal.

 

Zak Jules is a brutal. I understand that he is not training all week then playing at the weekend however he doesn't even look like a footballer. How he is getting picked for Scotland u21s is anyone's guess.

Chris Cadden has been out of form for months. I don't know if he is injured or if he has just been sussed out, he's pretty ineffective either way. I also don't think he is a right mid. The midfield in general has been a shambles all season. It has offered zero protection to our defence and offers nothing going forward. Pearo is a waste of a jersey just now.

Craig Samson is not a good goalkeeper, we all know that. To suggest he is a the be all and end all of our problems is way off target though and as @Desp said, Clapping and cheering every time he catches the ball is the act of a moron.

[RandomGuy.]

My grandfather once told me there was a time St Johnstone didn't finish top 6 in Scotland.  I just laughed and thought f**k off you blethering old shite.

I tried to get my grandad to go to games when I was younger, he said he'd return when we played in the top flight, said in a way which suggested he didn't think we'd be there for a while.

He died the season before we were promoted.

Makes me sort of blessed to be living in this era, tbh.

[mjw]

As would I, however it's got to the stage now where i'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for Samson and feel he's being harshly treated. Is he a good keeper? Not really, however the abuse he gets every game is way over the top and folk actually cheering whenever he catches the ball is fucking chronic patter. 

Craig Samson is not a good goalkeeper, we all know that. To suggest he is a the be all and end all of our problems is way off target though and as@Desp said, Clapping and cheering every time he catches the ball is the act of a moron.

The ironic cheering is on the loud side which would suggest its not just a minority of fuckwits doing it.
Overheard someone yesterday who was worried we wouldn't beat Dundee utd in a play off,I almost cried.

[andrewh]

9 hours ago, welldaft said:

In future when we are due to play St Johnstone, can we not just award them a 2-1 win and we can get on with our lives.

Yesterday was a case in point. We played well with sustained pressure for several periods of the game, but knew unless we scored a 2nd St Johnstone would and so it proved. Our defending is still a major problem, but maybe not surprising when we are missing 3 first choice defenders and are forced to play players out of position or who are simply not ready yet. 

You need luck also and the Bowman header in 90 minutes sums up that right now - none. How is stayed out. 

I saw enough yesterday to believe we have it in us to avoid bottom 2 places. Probably nothing from Ibrox after the break but then we play 8 cup final against teams below 5th place. The same application and a little more luck will see us pick up enough points.

I can't see Motherwell in the bottom two based on yesterday. At times, in the lead up to the equaliser, I suffered flashbacks of old times at Fir park with 'Well running at us down the flanks and creating chance after chance. Those bad old days would see us lose 3- or 4-0 there. The equalising goal was clearly coming for long enough but half time also arrived and we got a break from Frear later on too - I was pleased when he went off. I think you'd have to be in green and white hoops to get either of those two penalty claims awarded.