Queens V St Mirren

[Northfield 53]

Queens nothing really to play for will go through the motions again I expect a St Mirren win  

For a hour against Celtic St Mirren were excellent .They are now a very good side who I expect to pull away from the bottom of the league.

Queens form is now poor just hope that we can somehow hold on to 5th place  then rebuild for next season Naysmith has a huge job

[weeredbook]

Would like to see a few changes ,time for fringe players to get a chance .Danny to start . Atkinson too . Dykes at centre forward .

[Nithsdale Wanderer]

I may have taken the bait here, but Dykes at centre forward, yer 'avin a laugh !

He has no touch, no composure and poor decision making.  He should not be ahead of Del for first pick.

I understand with a midweek game the Manager may have to rotate the squad but Dobbie and Lyle - despite their years -  are the most potent strike force we have.

That was painful viewing yesterday watching the ball being lumped up to Dykes at every available opportunity and nothing coming of it.

That, of course, was not his fault, the Manager needs to take responsibility for dreadful tactics. As others have said elsewhere looked like we set out the last 2 games not to lose. That system worked initially away from home but both Thomson and Thomas have lost form - Thomas was anonymous yesterday and I almost forgot he was on the pitch.  Again though that was the Manager's fault as we hardly ever used the right side to attack and Thomas seemed not to want to run at people as he usually does.

I would welcome Danny starting but it may be a fitness issue that prevents him at the moment.

To cheer myself up I have been watching the fantastic wins against Rangers and the play-off matches against them - what a difference in style.

We  looked to pass at every opportunity and did so very effectively.  We had players who were confident in doing so and had obviously been coached and instructed to play that way.

Much, much better to watch.  I still think James Fowler was harshly treated after all the hours he put in and the relative success he delivered.

[die hard doonhamer]

I'd suggest going 3-5-2, but the thought of all of our centre backs on the field at the same time gives me the fear. Otherwise, that formation would suit us quite well, allowing us to play Dobbie and Del up top, and keep the 3 in the centre of midfield without punting Thomson out wide. I'd go with Mercer and Marshall as wing backs (but could be switched Dan and Thomas if we need more attacking threat). And I'd give Atkinson a go from now until the end of the season.

[Q0S-RUSH]

In hospitality for this game so i hope we show a bit more interest than we did against Morton or i might not bother coming out for the second half.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, die hard doonhamer said:

I'd suggest going 3-5-2, but the thought of all of our centre backs on the field at the same time gives me the fear.

It would also get us in a bit of trouble as Brownlie is suspended!

[weeredbook]

It would also get us in a bit of trouble as Brownlie is suspended!

At least theres some good news .

[Rjc-1988]

I may have taken the bait here, but Dykes at centre forward, yer 'avin a laugh !
He has no touch, no composure and poor decision making.  He should not be ahead of Del for first pick.
I understand with a midweek game the Manager may have to rotate the squad but Dobbie and Lyle - despite their years -  are the most potent strike force we have.
That was painful viewing yesterday watching the ball being lumped up to Dykes at every available opportunity and nothing coming of it.
That, of course, was not his fault, the Manager needs to take responsibility for dreadful tactics. As others have said elsewhere looked like we set out the last 2 games not to lose. That system worked initially away from home but both Thomson and Thomas have lost form - Thomas was anonymous yesterday and I almost forgot he was on the pitch.  Again though that was the Manager's fault as we hardly ever used the right side to attack and Thomas seemed not to want to run at people as he usually does.
I would welcome Danny starting but it may be a fitness issue that prevents him at the moment.
To cheer myself up I have been watching the fantastic wins against Rangers and the play-off matches against them - what a difference in style.
We  looked to pass at every opportunity and did so very effectively.  We had players who were confident in doing so and had obviously been coached and instructed to play that way.
Much, much better to watch.  I still think James Fowler was harshly treated after all the hours he put in and the relative success he delivered.

Agree.

If every Queens manager is judged as critically as James Fowler was we can expect a new managerial face every season. In his last season the team didn't play particularly well BUT our play had a pattern and one thing we did do was pass the ball and retain possession.

When we won 3-0 against St Mirren away GN's first win we scored 3 goals from 4 chances but we played hoofball and it was easy to look at the score line and ignore the very poor quality of our play. When you step back and actually look at our performances and style of play since GN took over (before and after new signings) it has been pretty awful.

To be brutally honest if we continue to play the same industrial football - we might as well not bother including Messrs Dobbie and Thomas and replace them with big powerful athletic types who can chase every "lost cause" because like it or not that is the way it is.

Central midfield is still a big problem because Rankine can't pass the ball and control a game and although Thomson is a good player he is not a ball player - he is a runner. We desperately need a playmaker in that crucial area for next season.

I fully accept that Manager needs time but the tactics are not playing to strengths and we not only continually under perform in the key matches we look as if we consider a draw to be a decent outcome.


"

[Sloop John B]

I'm just not having this rose tinted memory of Fowler for his second year, the football was slow, predictable and with a real lack of  width whatsoever. Regardless of whether it was he or the board who brought people in, he still played Jake Pickard as much as humanly possible. He didn't utilise two key members of a Morton side that have fairly comfortably beaten us in 3/4 attempts and when he did they were out of position. Not to mention the squad looked noticeably less fit than the previous season. It was all safe, inoffensive football that made Kyle Hutton look good when he wasn't really doing anything at all and the results showed. If Derek Lyle wasn't there, we'd have been in a lot more trouble, the midfield was so easy to counter as they were all immobile and the defence was actually worse than at the present.

Regardless of the manager or the style, the fact has remained that we haven't won games when we really needed to and the gap between us and the top four remains very wide. Morton don't play swashbuckling stuff all of the time, but they do the basics right and are able squeeze out games when they don't play well because they defend, execute on set pieces, and manage games a damn sight better than we do.

I'd like an attacking high pressing side as much as the next person but the reality is that it is very difficult to do with a pretty small squad, two very old strikers, in a physical, fast paced  league with some terrible pitches at this time of year along with a defence outside of Hammill that don't really pass the ball that well. I can see why Naysmith has went this way, even if he has probably gone too far the other way, as Dyke's flick ones do get the ball to Dobbie's feet and the likes of Thomson can help spread the play. If next year we turn into a reincarnated Tony Pulis side, I won't be particularly bothered as long as we can get results instead of the main theme recurring this year of losing close games and throwing away very poor goals. 

[Bobby_F]

1 hour ago, Rjc-1988 said:

 

Agree.

If every Queens manager is judged as critically as James Fowler was we can expect a new managerial face every season. In his last season the team didn't play particularly well BUT our play had a pattern and one thing we did do was pass the ball and retain possession.

When we won 3-0 against St Mirren away GN's first win we scored 3 goals from 4 chances but we played hoofball and it was easy to look at the score line and ignore the very poor quality of our play. When you step back and actually look at our performances and style of play since GN took over (before and after new signings) it has been pretty awful.

To be brutally honest if we continue to play the same industrial football - we might as well not bother including Messrs Dobbie and Thomas and replace them with big powerful athletic types who can chase every "lost cause" because like it or not that is the way it is.

Central midfield is still a big problem because Rankine can't pass the ball and control a game and although Thomson is a good player he is not a ball player - he is a runner. We desperately need a playmaker in that crucial area for next season.

I fully accept that Manager needs time but the tactics are not playing to strengths and we not only continually under perform in the key matches we look as if we consider a draw to be a decent outcome.


"

 

Agreed. That, like our game away to Raith last week, was one where the scoreline was nowhere near as convincing as it looked.

Can't remember precisely but I've a feeling there was at least one of those goals gifted by a defensive howler.

Saints problem though is that our first half of the season was just so shockingly bad now that we can't afford to lose games where we're competing.

That happens to all teams several times a season, and no doubt it'll happen to us again.

As things stand we're not the worst team in the league, but we need to be getting top-half results form to get out of this given where we are today.

[Guest Flash]

We currently have 1 point more than we did at the same stage last season.

Probably not fair to judge Naysmith's performance before January when the new players came in. Since then, he has taken 14 points from 9 games - effectively a quarter, although we have played Morton twice and haven't played Ayr yet. Fowler's best quarter last season earned 12 points. So, not really a great deal in it in terms of results. Replicated over last season, we would have finished 5th instead of 7th.

I'm not sure whether his apparently over cautious approach in some matches is because he doesn't trust the defence. Like against Hibs, it was maybe a case of shoring up the defence with 5 midfielders, even though Dunfermline showed it is possible to attack Hibs without getting slaughtered. 

Maybe we will only get to see his real approach next season when he has all of his own players, or most of them anyway. If we get defenders who can actually defend instead of seemingly being there to set up chances for the opposition, it might be different. The one doubt I have is that East Fife fans seemed glad to see the back of him and they seem to have benefitted quite substantially from his departure.

[Tetragrammaton]

Queens 2 v 0 skunks

[Rjc-1988]

I'm just not having this rose tinted memory of Fowler for his second year, the football was slow, predictable and with a real lack of  width whatsoever. Regardless of whether it was he or the board who brought people in, he still played Jake Pickard as much as humanly possible. He didn't utilise two key members of a Morton side that have fairly comfortably beaten us in 3/4 attempts and when he did they were out of position. Not to mention the squad looked noticeably less fit than the previous season. It was all safe, inoffensive football that made Kyle Hutton look good when he wasn't really doing anything at all and the results showed. If Derek Lyle wasn't there, we'd have been in a lot more trouble, the midfield was so easy to counter as they were all immobile and the defence was actually worse than at the present.
Regardless of the manager or the style, the fact has remained that we haven't won games when we really needed to and the gap between us and the top four remains very wide. Morton don't play swashbuckling stuff all of the time, but they do the basics right and are able squeeze out games when they don't play well because they defend, execute on set pieces, and manage games a damn sight better than we do.
I'd like an attacking high pressing side as much as the next person but the reality is that it is very difficult to do with a pretty small squad, two very old strikers, in a physical, fast paced  league with some terrible pitches at this time of year along with a defence outside of Hammill that don't really pass the ball that well. I can see why Naysmith has went this way, even if he has probably gone too far the other way, as Dyke's flick ones do get the ball to Dobbie's feet and the likes of Thomson can help spread the play. If next year we turn into a reincarnated Tony Pulis side, I won't be particularly bothered as long as we can get results instead of the main theme recurring this year of losing close games and throwing away very poor goals. 

There are no rose tinted glasses here - the point for me is that Fowler played a very significant part in our best season for many many years and then followed it up with a disappointing but not disastrous season. Fourth followed by seventh is decent two year form for us in arguably the toughest ever Championship league in the history of Scottish football.

Everything you say about Murdoch, Oliver and Pickard I agree with but by dispensing with Fowler on the back of that two year performance we are setting the bar pretty high for Managers to follow and in all honesty at present we are getting poor results and playing horrible football despite signing four new players!!!

I am not saying that the Fowler decision was necessarily wrong but if I was in his shoes I would have felt pretty disappointed at his treatment.

GN on the other hand talks with great authority in his post match interviews and it all sounds as if it is just about to take off and then........ .....you watch the next game and after about 20 mins the match ball looks as though it is pleading to be replaced!!

As you say if we are going to play in the mould of a Pullis side let's get personnel who suit that system and not waste big wages on Dobbie and run him into the ground chasing lost causes.

[Monkey Tennis]

It's possible to both recognise the stagnation and then retreat that happened under Fowler; yet also have pretty grave concerns about how things are shaping up under Naysmith.

[Hawk]

After Saturdays performance or lack of with no energy, passion or pride I fear the team thinks there's nothing to play for now this season. Saints with survival at stake could prove to be to stong for us. I want and hope for a home win but who knows what we'll get.

[Sloop John B]

22 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

 

There are no rose tinted glasses here - the point for me is that Fowler played a very significant part in our best season for many many years and then followed it up with a disappointing but not disastrous season. Fourth followed by seventh is decent two year form for us in arguably the toughest ever Championship league in the history of Scottish football.

Everything you say about Murdoch, Oliver and Pickard I agree with but by dispensing with Fowler on the back of that two year performance we are setting the bar pretty high for Managers to follow and in all honesty at present we are getting poor results and playing horrible football despite signing four new players!!!

I am not saying that the Fowler decision was necessarily wrong but if I was in his shoes I would have felt pretty disappointed at his treatment.

GN on the other hand talks with great authority in his post match interviews and it all sounds as if it is just about to take off and then........ .....you watch the next game and after about 20 mins the match ball looks as though it is pleading to be replaced!!

As you say if we are going to play in the mould of a Pullis side let's get personnel who suit that system and not waste big wages on Dobbie and run him into the ground chasing lost causes.

 

 

The biggest difference between Fowler and Naysmith was that Fowler was able to work with what he had but failed at moulding a squad in his image. If think you would have been mental to think we had a shot of the playoff that season, but a season of rebuilding and progress for the next year would have been encouraging enough IMO except it only got worse. The real mistake was replacing a failing regime with the assistant and not properly addressing the main problems with the squad, the only upside being  signing Dobbie and not hiring Gary Locke. 

I'm disputing the toughness aspect of last year, Hibs and Rangers are obviously good but the likes of Dumbarton, Livingston and especially Alloa last year were awful sides. A terrible Ian Murray St Mirren side bodied us at Palmerston and Morton weren't the side they are now and still edged out close games against us. 

Whereas Naysmith appears to be the opposite with the newer players being the better contributors and the existing guys being fairly poor excluding Jacobs/Dobbie/Lyle. My worry is that we keep on chopping and changing each window if it doesn't work which doesn't read for a good long term picture.

I  think there is a bit of an overreaction from a bad week  losing against 2 superior sides and a draw against a closely matched side. We actually scored as many goals in the last quarter and conceded exactly the same as the first 9 games so I don't think we've been as bad as what has been made out. That's not to say everything is fine though.

[shull]

QOTSFC 1 SMFC 3

Crowd 1787

[palmy_cammy]

Pretty hard to muster any sort of excitement for this one, and any Queens fan who says otherwise is lying.  A few changes to personnel and a fresh approach might be enough to make it bearable but with injuries and suspensions Naysmith is somewhat limited and I expect it will be more of the same.

What I'd like to see:

Atkinson

Mercer Dowie Higgins Marshall

Carmichael Jacobs Thomson Thomas

Dobbie Lyle

The reality is Marshall might be out which means we'll have to suffer Hamill who it's fair to say hasn't benefited from his time out of the side.  Perhaps Dobbie could point him towards his fitness regime from his first spell with us? 

Further forward someone will be shunted out of position to allow us to play all three central midfielders.  Either Thomson, the best of the lot, will be wasted out wide or Dobbie will have the thankless loan striker role.  Thomas will play wrong side and the opposition will realise this after about 30 seconds and stop him cutting inside.  Carmichael won't play because he can't win flick ons.

Is it May yet?

[Rjc-1988]

Pretty hard to muster any sort of excitement for this one, and any Queens fan who says otherwise is lying.  A few changes to personnel and a fresh approach might be enough to make it bearable but with injuries and suspensions Naysmith is somewhat limited and I expect it will be more of the same.
What I'd like to see:
Atkinson
Mercer Dowie Higgins Marshall
Carmichael Jacobs Thomson Thomas
Dobbie Lyle
The reality is Marshall might be out which means we'll have to suffer Hamill who it's fair to say hasn't benefited from his time out of the side.  Perhaps Dobbie could point him towards his fitness regime from his first spell with us? 
Further forward someone will be shunted out of position to allow us to play all three central midfielders.  Either Thomson, the best of the lot, will be wasted out wide or Dobbie will have the thankless loan striker role.  Thomas will play wrong side and the opposition will realise this after about 30 seconds and stop him cutting inside.  Carmichael won't play because he can't win flick ons.
Is it May yet?

That would be my team if all fit.

Need to get back to playing proper football and trying to establish a pattern of play that gives some hope for next season.

Last thing we need is to go on another horrible losing run and start nosediving again.

GN has a decent enough group of players to be playing a lot better than we have seen since he took over - he got good support from BOD in transfer window and he needs to prove that he can mastermind a playing strategy that makes the best use of what we have.

[football maniac]

On ‎13‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 22:30, Sloop John B said:

 

Whereas Naysmith appears to be the opposite with the newer players being the better contributors and the existing guys being fairly poor excluding Jacobs/Dobbie/Lyle. My worry is that we keep on chopping and changing each window if it doesn't work which doesn't read for a good long term picture.

 

Thomson has been excellent and Thomas started off excellent, but for the last 3/4 games he has been as bad as he was good for the his first 3/4 games. I understand wingers lack consistency so hopefully its just a blip! I remember Stevie Murray had a similar promising start which petered out horribly so hopefully he can get back to his best soon. Dury very much out on Mercer for me, while Rankin has been ok. I would say yes Thomson has been excellent, especially when played in his favoured position centrally but the others haven't quite lived up to his standard.

Wonder if Dowser will be back for this? He has looked pretty grumpy of late and his performances have reflected his mood. What kept him out last weekend? He has been a class player for us but of late we have looked better with Higgy and Brownlie. I still feel Higgy has a lot to offer.

Got to admit I'm surprised how good Oliver has been at Morton. I never thought him good enough for us but just goes to show some players fit in better at certain clubs with certain systems. Murdoch on the other hand I cant believe wasn't snapped up till like September/October. He was classy on the ball but for us again was the victim of being played out of position. Would definitely of tried to have kept him if we didnt