Shanner Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I'd rather see a full (or near-full) stadium for a showpiece game. It might be a big day for the players (and I can understand why some might prefer playing maybe the only match of their careers at the National Stadium) but it's also about the fans and sitting in a 15% full stadium does not make for a memorable or enjoyable experience and looks dismal on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I dunno, I think we as a grade of football are terrible at being ambitious these days, and I don't think a 10k crowd at a Junior Cup Final at Hampden is all that fanciful. It's a much improved experience from 1986. I also think it would be a great day for all concerned playing and seeing your team play at the National Stadium, it's also more of an occasion than 5k at Rugby Park. You could have a "Non-League Day" with both the Amateurs and Juniors playing, 1.00 and 4.00 ko's? with SAFA involvement the cost may be less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Burnie_man said: I dunno, I think we as a grade of football are terrible at being ambitious these days, and I don't think a 10k crowd at a Junior Cup Final at Hampden is all that fanciful. It's a much improved experience from 1986. I also think it would be a great day for all concerned playing and seeing your team play at the National Stadium, it's also more of an occasion than 5k at Rugby Park. You could have a "Non-League Day" with both the Amateurs and Juniors playing, 1.00 and 4.00 ko's? with SAFA involvement the cost may be less. The non-league day is a pretty good idea. The groundsman might not thank you for it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacktonite Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Biggest prob for Hampden is rental cost for the Juniors - when I was on Lok committee in 00s, the rate was £20,000. I can't imagine it has gone down since. Amateurs get it free for their final. Yip still 20k to hire the park! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jacktonite said: Yip still 20k to hire the park! cheers Fabi - ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Bing Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I dunno, I think we as a grade of football are terrible at being ambitious these days, and I don't think a 10k crowd at a Junior Cup Final at Hampden is all that fanciful. It's a much improved experience from 1986. I also think it would be a great day for all concerned playing and seeing your team play at the National Stadium, it's also more of an occasion than 5k at Rugby Park. You could have a "Non-League Day" with both the Amateurs and Juniors playing, 1.00 and 4.00 ko's? with SAFA involvement the cost may be less. Good Idea in principle but can't see it coming to fruition. See if the beaks sold the Juniors product better than it does then you would get a better input. Merging of the LL, Juniors and Amatuers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I have to say as somebody who has seen my team in plenty of finals I would have absolutely no interest in attending the amateur cup final before it. I would prefer to enjoy the build up to the big day in the pub with my friends. I am sure most people would feel this way. I am sure followers of the amateur teams in the final would have no interest in hanging around for the Junior cup final either. They would want to get back to celebrate/commiserate in their local communities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said: I have to say as somebody who has seen my team in plenty of finals I would have absolutely no interest in attending the amateur cup final before it. I would prefer to enjoy the build up to the big day in the pub with my friends. I am sure most people would feel this way. I am sure followers of the amateur teams in the final would have no interest in hanging around for the Junior cup final either. They would want to get back to celebrate/commiserate in their local communities You have the opportunity to attend both if you wanted to, some people would, most probably wouldn't, but that's not really the point. It would be more of a way of promoting both Finals, promoting non-league football, playing it in the National Stadium. Maybe even attract a decent sponsor. Likely never happen though given to total lack of leadership in our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Talbot Bing said: Good Idea in principle but can't see it coming to fruition. See if the beaks sold the Juniors product better than it does then you would get a better input. Merging of the LL, Juniors and Amatuers? Down South they have tried the FA Vase and the FA Trophy Finals on the same day at Wembley. They promoted it as the "Non League Finals Day" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Bing Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Down South they have tried the FA Vase and the FA Trophy Finals on the same day at Wembley. They promoted it as the "Non League Finals Day" Might be with a try. Give it a go what's the worst that can happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Talbot Bing said: Might be with a try. Give it a go what's the worst that can happen? The Final makes a massive financial lose. No matter what you try to do or dress it up Hampden is a non-starter due to the cost involved. Its a private company who deal with the hire of Hampden you are not even dealing with football authorities. You might as well suggest holding it on the moon as there is as much chance of it being there as Hampden. Queue the jokes about a poor atmosphere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said: The Final makes a massive financial lose. No matter what you try to do or dress it up Hampden is a non-starter due to the cost involved. Its a private company who deal with the hire of Hampden you are not even dealing with football authorities. You might as well suggest holding it on the moon as there is as much chance of it being there as Hampden. Queue the jokes about a poor atmosphere SAFA receive the use of Hampden free. A non-league day with the SAFA Final as part of it, I'm sure a deal can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 At least on the Moon, the flair players would get "space" to play. Although it wouldn't be easy for the SJFA to "planet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 A major drawback to holding two finals on the one day would be stewarding costs. As far as I know, hire of the ground is free for Amateurs, Schools FA, etc, but they are made to pay through the nose for stewards. If there are two matches, the stewards are there for double the time, so double the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 5 hours ago, omar said: A major drawback to holding two finals on the one day would be stewarding costs. As far as I know, hire of the ground is free for Amateurs, Schools FA, etc, but they are made to pay through the nose for stewards. If there are two matches, the stewards are there for double the time, so double the cost. Well if there were two separate games at different venues then the stewards still have to be paid do they not? not sure this is even a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 23 hours ago, Burnie_man said: Well if there were two separate games at different venues then the stewards still have to be paid do they not? not sure this is even a problem. That's the problem with Hampden. The stewards are far more expensive here than any other ground considered for finals because of the size of the ground - many more are required. Pay them twice, and factor in what the SJFA might pay for the ground, and it quickly becomes highly uneconomic. At least one of the A.N.A.s took a huge hit last season, despite not being 'charged' for the ground, and charging admission at the turnstiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 That's the problem with Hampden. The stewards are far more expensive here than any other ground considered for finals because of the size of the ground - many more are required. Pay them twice, and factor in what the SJFA might pay for the ground, and it quickly becomes highly uneconomic. At least one of the A.N.A.s took a huge hit last season, despite not being 'charged' for the ground, and charging admission at the turnstiles. I don't think it's an issue which would present a major problem if you ran with an idea like a non league day. Anyway, it's very unlikely to happen so no need to worry about it. It's far too radical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 43 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: I don't think it's an issue which would present a major problem if you ran with an idea like a non league day. Anyway, it's very unlikely to happen so no need to worry about it. It's far too radical. I actually think that it is a great idea. I tend to go to at least one of the games as a neutral. My issue is that I know that it wouldn't work at Hampden - a damning indictment of a venue that claims to be the 'National Stadium'. I would hope that such an enterprise would work elsewhere. Livingston has hosted the amateur final well in the past, although prices have crept up recently. My posts weren't a criticism of your idea, more an expression of my frustration at the way that Hampden is viewed as a fiefdom, rather than the national stadium for all levels of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 10 hours ago, omar said: I actually think that it is a great idea. I tend to go to at least one of the games as a neutral. My issue is that I know that it wouldn't work at Hampden - a damning indictment of a venue that claims to be the 'National Stadium'. I would hope that such an enterprise would work elsewhere. Livingston has hosted the amateur final well in the past, although prices have crept up recently. My posts weren't a criticism of your idea, more an expression of my frustration at the way that Hampden is viewed as a fiefdom, rather than the national stadium for all levels of football. It's a fair point, if this is our National Stadium then it shouldn't be prohibitive to use the venue for national cup finals. It should be encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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