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Old Firm Colts in L2


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30 minutes ago, Thom & Gerry said:

Excuse my ignorance. How are they going to decide if the reconstruction is to go ahead or not then?

Going by what CC said I can only presume that the story was leaked to their pet poodle in the media, but nothing has actually been put forward to the clubs and SPFL.

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36 minutes ago, Thom & Gerry said:

Excuse my ignorance. How are they going to decide if the reconstruction is to go ahead or not then?

There's meant to be indicative votes in by July 7th.

If there's not enough support it won't go to a proper vote and the OF go back to tinkering till we hear about it again in 6 months time. 

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10 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It isn't the English national anthem, it's the British national anthem.

They should put another verse in about us bottling the referendum as well then 

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3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There's meant to be indicative votes in by July 7th.

If there's not enough support it won't go to a proper vote and the OF go back to tinkering till we hear about it again in 6 months time. 

Cheers.

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Posted (edited)
On 30/06/2021 at 08:36, 7 Eleven said:

 

Lower league club owners need to start getting tough with this continuous nonsense and call Rangers bluff. I say Rangers because they seem to be the main protagonists of this. If this is genuinely about improving the national team then there needs to be a clear pathway into the first team once they are too old for the B team. For that to happen Rangers and Celtic need to make some concessions at first team level (or these concessions should be Premiership wide). This could include all or a combination of the following:

  • Nationality rules (e.g., can’t have more than x foreign players in squad or on the pitch at any time).
  • locally/club-trained player rule (similar to above)
  • Squad size limits (e.g., 18 or 20 first team players over the age of 21)
  • Loan limits  & removal intra-league loans (which is basically a form of league doping when the player can play against every other team except their parent club)

I am 100% certain that each and every one of the proposals would be rejected by Rangers and Celtic based on the belief that it would limit their ability to compete at European level. However, I’d cite Athletic Bilbao’ s (Europa League finalists 2012)  self-imposed Basque policy or Celtic’s very own Lisbon Lions as counter arguments to that.

The cynic in me can’t help but think that Rangers are pushing this as a way of stockpiling players and creating an additional revenue stream by selling players to the English Championship, and/or a way of Rangers having a ready-made  SFA/SPFL licence/membership if they were ever to go into liquidation again. Also, they would likely want to replace the B team in whatever league they were occupying at that time, opposed to starting at the bottom of the pyramid.

Finally, I believe that SPFL should be investing all of their time and effort into trying to make the Premier League more competitive rather than turning three engaging already competitive leagues into glorified development leagues. To further help two teams who have dominated the top tier for the last  36 years is nonsensical. Maybe focus on Premiership reconstruction and a redistribution of playing talent. This would require an increase in the number of clubs in the top division and a more balanced sharing of prize money, which are another two suggestions that I believe would be immediately shot down.  This all starts to ask the question as to who are the ones actually holding the Scottish game back?

An excellent post. 
The top division is the worst of the 4, with the gap between 2 and the rest far too big to call it a competitive league. 
Make sorting this out a priority so the game can thrive in this country. 
Leave the other 3 divisions alone. They do pretty well as they are, except the obvious flaw of having to play each other too many times.

Instead of allowing the 2 clubs to have a B team, therefore hoovering up even more young talent, make it the bottom club gets first pick at the elite youth academies, 2nd bottom next pick , and so on. It works in other countries for sports, only greed and narrow minds prevent it here.

Edited by big al
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Instead of allowing the 2 clubs to have a B team, therefore hoovering up even more young talent, make it the bottom club gets first pick at the elite youth academies, 2nd bottom next pick , and so on. It works in other countries for sports, only greed and narrow minds prevent it here.

I perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, but I quite like the idea of people being able to choose who employs them.
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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:


I perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, but I quite like the idea of people being able to choose who employs them.

Well it was just my suggestion off the top of my head as 1 of probably many ways to redress the balance of the top division.

I’m sure all these super duper ‘think tanks’ could come up with more and better ideas if they wanted to, instead of arse licking the bigot brothers and ensuring they win the league forever.

Was based on the basketball which I enjoy watching on sky. It’s almost always different teams at the top at the end of the season, what a concept that would be. 

Edited by big al
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Posted (edited)

If we are to have to exist with 'subsidiary' [word carefully chosen] teams within the significant Pyramid structure, then there must be tight regulations and significant compromises made in return. 

I've thought of a fair few, but no doubt, the following list can be added-to, so feel free to do so &/or critique in comments...

The top-of-the-list compromise to be demanded must be to revert to a 50/50 matchday financial redistribution of attendance income, with a significant levy (10%) imposed for distribution among lower divisional clubs. 

The second compromise should be to insist upon SPFL reconstruction below the Premiership, to increase divisional sizes to eighteen/twenty, probably reducing to just Championship/League One [in the SPFL] in that process.

Promotion/relegation to & from the Premiership must be guaranteed at two clubs per season, ideally with some form of third-club peril/playoff-opportunity... which should positively influence some Premiership thoughts with respect to 'refreshment' of the divisional format.

As far as 'subsidiary team' participation is concerned...

Firstly, every such team shall require to be comprised of (say) 100% U-23s & 80% Scottish-qualified players, without let.

All Premiership clubs will be required to field a 'subsidiary team', guaranteed for five seasons counting from the first season of Premiership accession. Any other club may operate a 'subsidiary team', to compete no higher than two divisions beneath itself in the Pyramid, subject to being guaranteed for three seasons counting from/including the first season of playing. Such bond-backed guarantees are in all cases for the purpose of reducing any 'withdrawal chaos' in lower divisions and all 'subsidiary teams' are subject to a one-season notice of withdrawal.

No 'subsidiary team' player having been fielded, starting (say) 5-times in a First-team, or 10-times subbed, or 15-times benched, or combination thereof may participate back in any 'subsidiary team' match in the same/following season, except versus another 'subsidiary team'-XI.

No 'subsidiary team' would be allowed higher than League One &/or be eligible to compete in significant Cup competition.

Like in the German system, a limit of (say) 4 'subsidiary teams' may be allowed in League One per season. If more than this were to initially qualify to do so, then a 'winnowing' sub-competition between them would be played to reduce numbers accordingly. Such ruling repeated in any/all lower divisions, subject to no division comprising >20% in number of 'subsidiary teams', unless agreed beforehand by the governing body.

In divisions containing 'subsidiary teams' in which other rules are not pre-arranged, 'subsidiary teams' would to all intents and purposes be treated for promotion and relegation purposes exactly the same as any other team, subject to overarching rules governing maximum numbers of 'subsidiary teams' allowed per division, wherein a promoted 'subsidiary team' takes the place of an incumbent 'subsidiary team' in the higher division, as opposed to a 'normal' team.

For 'normal' teams, points & GF/GA/GD against 'subsidiary teams' will be counted as normal for positional placements.

Edited by Cornishman
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20 hours ago, big al said:

Well it was just my suggestion off the top of my head as 1 of probably many ways to redress the balance of the top division.

I’m sure all these super duper ‘think tanks’ could come up with more and better ideas if they wanted to, instead of arse licking the bigot brothers and ensuring they win the league forever.

Was based on the basketball which I enjoy watching on sky. It’s almost always different teams at the top at the end of the season, what a concept that would be. 

All of the basketball teams can afford top wages for a start. Imagine if you were a top football player but got drafted to Hamilton or Inverness for example. That player would be losing out big time on wages when they could have instead signed for Aberdeen or Hibs for greater pay and terms. That would just discourage players from joining such an academy system.

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Out of office said:

All of the basketball teams can afford top wages for a start. Imagine if you were a top football player but got drafted to Hamilton or Inverness for example. That player would be losing out big time on wages when they could have instead signed for Aberdeen or Hibs for greater pay and terms. That would just discourage players from joining such an academy system.

 

So there’s the real problem. Unfairness of finances causes basically a no competition league. 
Maybe start by addressing this first.

Sur I read it’s 36 years now since anyone else has won the league. 36 years of the same pish, what’s the fuckin point?

 

Edited by big al
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, big al said:

So there’s the real problem. Unfairness of finances causes basically a no competition league. 
Maybe start by addressing this first.

Sur I read it’s 36 years now since anyone else has won the league. 36 years of the same pish, what’s the fuckin point?

 

Yes, but a draft wouldn't come close to even starting to solve that given teams can sign players from elsewhere, and given that they'd just be able to buy players drafted to other teams anyway.

Part of the reason drafts work in American sports is that they are 'contained' so to speak, i.e. there's only one league, or only one where any half decent player and above plays. Teams in those leagues can't just go and sign players from other countries or poach the best players from the domestic leagues below them, as there aren't any.

If you introduced a draft here Sevco and Celtic would just hoover up even more younger players in to their own youth systems, and push harder for 'colt' sides to ensure that.

 

I don't know how to address the financial imbalance. I don't think you can unfortunately. We live in a capitalist society and laws, including laws of the game, are all set up to serve the richer clubs. Genuinely, the best hope we have is for Sevco and Celtic to f**k off, which is one of the main reasons why we can't allow them to have 'colt' teams in the SPFL.

Edited by Out of office
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On 26/06/2021 at 10:28, Cardle is Magic said:

I emailed DAFC to ask if they were against the proposals and I am concerned by the non-answer I received in reply.

 

I got almost the exact same reply, word for word (the only difference was an added line to me).

I replied that if that was the club's response then it was not acceptable and that those running the club will have their competence called in to question. I received no response to that.

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Think the integrity of the game must be retained, every non league club must see an opportunity to scale the ramparts into the spfl - then to play every game with 3 pts at stake, with promotion or relegation on offer. Having colts teams doesn't mean they will all reach the 1st team, going out on loan must be preferable.Sadly the ££ may play a part in swaying clubs minds. 

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On 30/06/2021 at 21:05, rockson said:

Except the English thought it was.

Then or now?  I doubt there are many English these days who have heard of the 15 or 45.  And those that have will know it was a Jacobite (re-)invasion rather than a Scottish revolt.

I think then there was a different attitude to nation anyway - wasn't there a Scots paper called the North Briton?

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3 hours ago, bluearmyfaction said:

Then or now?  I doubt there are many English these days who have heard of the 15 or 45.  And those that have will know it was a Jacobite (re-)invasion rather than a Scottish revolt.

I think then there was a different attitude to nation anyway - wasn't there a Scots paper called the North Briton?

And nobody ever really sings that verse in the modern era 

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22 hours ago, bluearmyfaction said:

Then or now?  I doubt there are many English these days who have heard of the 15 or 45.  And those that have will know it was a Jacobite (re-)invasion rather than a Scottish revolt.

I think then there was a different attitude to nation anyway - wasn't there a Scots paper called the North Briton?

For a while in the early 1800’s there was an effort to effectively re brand Scotland as “north Britain” faded away in the latter half of that century , however there is still the north British hotel on Princes street as a reminder to us all 

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