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Old Firm Colts in L2


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21 minutes ago, Marten said:

Big chance that it will happen sooner or later sadly, but there is nothing positive about it. And no way it will bring more fans, maybe initially, but not when the novelty wears off.

If you live in a town with a League 2 club, e.g. Elgin, Annan, Stranraer, Stirling and you don't currently attend I doubt very much Celgers pitching up with a team full of youngsters is going to entice you through the turnstiles on a regular basis.

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29 minutes ago, edinabear said:

Looking positive that this is happening now. Wil bring some much needed finance and more fans to the league. 

It won't.

Lower league fans will stay away from colt team fixtures. There's absolutely no appetite for it. You're more likely to see home crowds stay away than increase from the cumulative effect of curiosity and travelling OF fans. At best it would be financially neutral. At worst it actually may damage club finances. How many people want to sponsor a game or take hospitality for a visit from Rangers' colts featuring a cast of players who aren't good enough to play on loan at a higher level?

OF loanees at League One and Two level are absolutely garbage. Playing against Forfar or Brechin won't suddenly turn the likes of Matthew Shiels into a good top flight player.

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1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:

If you live in a town with a League 2 club, e.g. Elgin, Annan, Stranraer, Stirling and you don't currently attend I doubt very much Celgers pitching up with a team full of youngsters is going to entice you through the turnstiles on a regular basis.

I more mean the fans of the ugly sisters. I think it will be similar to what happened in The Netherlands where they got half-decent crowds for the first season because of the novelty factor, but the crowds collapsed soon after. After a year or so the colt teams' home attendances were the lowest in the league and in away games they rarely even take away attendances into double figures. That has not changed again since.

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6 minutes ago, Marten said:

I more mean the fans of the ugly sisters. I think it will be similar to what happened in The Netherlands where they got half-decent crowds for the first season because of the novelty factor, but the crowds collapsed soon after. After a year or so the colt teams' home attendances were the lowest in the league and in away games they rarely even take away attendances into double figures. That has not changed again since.

I took that out of your post, again doubt there would be enough to compensate in the drop off of regulars.

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2 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I took that out of your post, again doubt there would be enough to compensate in the drop off of regulars.

Fair enough. Hopefully we'll never find out, but even if there is an initial positive effect on attendances, we will both agree that it won't last. Put this plan in the bin, where the previous 3,137 plans to introduce these teams are already (I might be a few off with that number, but probably not far).

Plus, the trouble OF fans tend to bring would even in the case of higher crowds likely negate any profit due to more security costs etc.

Edited by Marten
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2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

@The Phoenixhas answered how it is dealt with practically just now, but what do you suggest Chairmen do to prevent it being raised again?

I would like to see a collective of chairmen make a statement that they will never vote for this but the financial element will be a draw to some. This was raised at our AGM a few years ago when first mooted and I think there was some were surprised by how vehemently it was opposed.  When you look at the number of Scottish players in both the OF teams in the past few weeks this lacks even more credibility. 

How much are Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc going to chip in when they wish to join? 

If your SPL team gets relegated  does your Colt team cease to exist?

Will you still attend if L2 consists of 8 colt teams and 2 non colt teams?

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1 minute ago, Moonglum25 said:

I would like to see a collective of chairmen make a statement that they will never vote for this but the financial element will be a draw to some. This was raised at our AGM a few years ago when first mooted and I think there was some were surprised by how vehemently it was opposed.  When you look at the number of Scottish players in both the OF teams in the past few weeks this lacks even more credibility. 

How much are Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen etc going to chip in when they wish to join? 

If your SPL team gets relegated  does your Colt team cease to exist?

Will you still attend if L2 consists of 8 colt teams and 2 non colt teams?

That would only stand as a joint position on the day it was issued. Personnel change, the "offer" will change. You can't stop it being raised any more than you can stop an MP raising a Bill to reintroduce the death penalty.

I had already stopped going to "senior" games, but decided never to go back when they let Rangers first team in, never mind their reserves.

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I expect that Rantic colts would appeal to plenty of their fans who live in towns around the country but who can never make it to the first team games.

Sorry to say it, but if there's an overage allowance so that some first teamers will play, local away fans will turn out for these games.

(I may have misthought there, let me know)

 

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14 minutes ago, Oldster said:

I expect that Rantic colts would appeal to plenty of their fans who live in towns around the country but who can never make it to the first team games.

Sorry to say it, but if there's an overage allowance so that some first teamers will play, local away fans will turn out for these games.

(I may have misthought there, let me know)

 

Where is the evidence that their supporters will attend and can you estimate how many supporters of other teams won't? What impact did It have on the Challenge Cup?

It is a lie they perpetuate that there will be a benefit to other clubs.

 

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35 minutes ago, Oldster said:

I expect that Rantic colts would appeal to plenty of their fans who live in towns around the country but who can never make it to the first team games.

Sorry to say it, but if there's an overage allowance so that some first teamers will play, local away fans will turn out for these games.

(I may have misthought there, let me know)

Since 95% of Rangers/Celtic fans are - either themselves or through their elder relatives - drawn to supporting their team because of the dominance they enjoy over the Scottish game, I'm going to go ahead and say "no, they won't be bothering with watching some U20s labour to a 0-0 draw against Elgin".

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1 minute ago, HibsFan said:

Since 95% of Rangers/Celtic fans are - either themselves or through their elder relatives - drawn to supporting their team because of the dominance they enjoy over the Scottish game, I'm going to go ahead and say "no, they won't be bothering with watching some U20s labour to a 0-0 draw against Elgin".

The answer is no.

By even contemplating the possibility of increased crowds as @Oldster did you encourage debate and allow their foot in the door.

 

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Even Rangers and Celtic don't think they'd cause increased crowds, which is why these stories usually involve them buying up a chunk of tickets at any given away game, regardless of actually selling them.

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32 minutes ago, David W said:

Even Rangers and Celtic don't think they'd cause increased crowds, which is why these stories usually involve them buying up a chunk of tickets at any given away game, regardless of actually selling them.

It’s just symptom of them not understanding the problem.

‘Oh, you won’t let us in cos you are unsure of crowds,  we’ll give you the security of the crowd money but are still arrogant enough to believe it won’t cost us much’

They believe they are all that matters in Scottish football, and that for other clubs not to be delighted about playing them can’t be a moral issue, and  can only be a financial concern.

Edited by parsforlife
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I didn't state that they would increase crowds.

From my own experience, family members would go to watch them if they were playing locally, in the league, and if they had an overage allowance where well kent names featured. I think interest would wane if they were corralled into the current small divisions playing teams more often, as the novelty of Rangers or Celtic visiting would wear off. 

I have no evidence since it hasn't happened yet.

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3 hours ago, HibsFan said:

Since 95% of Rangers/Celtic fans are - either themselves or through their elder relatives - drawn to supporting their team because of the dominance they enjoy over the Scottish game, I'm going to go ahead and say "no, they won't be bothering with watching some U20s labour to a 0-0 draw against Elgin".

Particularly if it’s on a Tuesday night 

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