Old Firm Colts in L2

[Bairnardo]

I don’t think it’s a good idea. But if we are going to do it, let’s do it properly. Why should two teams get special treatment?  Oh I forgot, football in this country is run entirely to their benefit. 

Another key point in this shit show.

Why should the structure of Scottish football change for the actual stated purpose of giving the arse cheeks a competitive advantage? Its absolutely mental.

[San Starko Rover]

Another key point in this shit show.

Why should the structure of Scottish football change for the actual stated purpose of giving the arse cheeks a competitive advantage? Its absolutely mental.

Answered your own question, because it’s them. I want to see reform of our leagues from Premier down to the bottom of the non League but I want it done right and for the benefit of every team. Not what suits the Old Firm or what Anne Budge has written on the back of a fag packet to suit Hearts. Let’s get everyone around the table from the SFA down and look at what’s the best format for our game. We definitely need to open up more promotion. Stop giving 2nd bottom a play off spot and send two down. Same for League 2 then the HL and LL can promote their Champion.

[Bairnardo]

Just now, San Starko Rover said:

 

Answered your own question, because it’s them. I want to see reform of our leagues from Premier down to the bottom of the non League but I want it done right and for the benefit of every team. Not what suits the Old Firm or what Anne Budge has written on the back of a fag packet to suit Hearts. Let’s get everyone around the table from the SFA down and look at what’s the best format for our game. We definitely need to open up more promotion. Stop giving 2nd bottom a play off spot and send two down. Same for League 2 then the HL and LL can promote their Champion.

 

Oh I know. I just dont understand why the notion has continued on for so long without that point being front and centre... Yeah, cos its them again....

[Sergeant Wilson]

11 hours ago, Big Dougie said:

The general concept seems to work well in other leagues in Europe. Is it because it’s Rangers and Celtic we are against it in this country?

As a rule of thumb, that's usually a fair indication of whether I'll support a proposal or not.

[San Starko Rover]

Totally agree how did we ever end up with the top division having 11-1 voting rights that allowed them to control everything. I despise Aberdeen’s Board for voting to continue that when Rangers were in the lower leagues. It was the chance to change things away from the Old Firm permanently controlling the system.

[true fan]

We could look at this over the next 2-3 years. Big and important matter. I was surprised last year when the world (not just football) was collapsing around our ears. I couldn’t believe my eyes when league reconstruction raised its head. Looked like blatant opportunism to me - bigger clubs thinking smaller clubs were in fear of their financial lives and would reconstruct for a tiny bag of money. Strange we want reconstruction in panic mode.

I’m not sure changes will make a huge difference. If you look back there have been several changes in past few decades and they haven’t made much difference. We were desperate to go to 3 leagues - the best thing since sliced bread. Desperate to go to 4 leagues - would transform the world. Now 3 is the magic number. A bit like shuffling deckchairs on the titanic - our domestic football just isn’t very good. Normally we have 0 - 2 good teams in Scotland and the rest are iffy. What we’d give for Aberdeen & Dundee Utd or Hibs & Hearts having purple patches

for change - 10 team leagues mean each team x 4 per season; feels like usual suspects

against - 1. numbers don’t add up - everybody 3 times? Splitting into 2 mini leagues for final few games is very complicated

                   2. Playoffs add interest - competitive games till the last game of the season. Imagine Div 1 or 2 with a runaway  

                   winner at Xmas, mid table bore-fests in feb to may?

                    3. We shouldn’t increase teams in the top 4 leagues - the quality just isn’t there

 

have a debate but not in covid crisis. Not 2 successive years of debates about how to end seasons, kelty, reconstruction, colts teams. I for one can’t take that

Edited February 14, 2021 by true fan

[Sergeant Wilson]

23 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Totally agree how did we ever end up with the top division having 11-1 voting rights that allowed them to control everything. I despise Aberdeen’s Board for voting to continue that when Rangers were in the lower leagues. It was the chance to change things away from the Old Firm permanently controlling the system.

 "We want to change the voting system to benefit us, we'll give you some money. All in favour?

Carried"

[Big Dougie]

2 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Yes, asking a question and then refusing to look where you are told the answer is to be found is an excellent look for you.

I think it was the manner in which I was told that somewhat turned me against the idea. Manners really don’t cost anything, as has been proven by some subsequent excellent summaries of the situation. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Big Dougie

[Sergeant Wilson]

13 hours ago, Big Dougie said:

The general concept seems to work well in other leagues in Europe. Is it because it’s Rangers and Celtic we are against it in this country?

Explain how it works in other countries. Pick one and tell me the pros and cons.

[Big Dougie]

13 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Explain how it works in other countries. Pick one and tell me the pros and cons.

Croatia for instance, approx 60% of their World Cup final squad played “B” team football. With Spain I believe nearly all of their A squad played a significant amount of B team football.

I am not saying it’s right or wrong, my original question was a valid attempt at trying to understand the dynamics of the objections.

[true fan]

Can you tell me what you wrote in your last post? I can’t be bothered to read it

[Sergeant Wilson]

8 minutes ago, Big Dougie said:

Croatia for instance, approx 60% of their World Cup final squad played “B” team football. With Spain I believe nearly all of their A squad played a significant amount of B team football.

I am not saying it’s right or wrong, my original question was a valid attempt at trying to understand the dynamics of the objections.

That doesn't explain the practicality of putting prominent second teams in the professional structure.

For instance, in Croatia football outside the top division is virtually amateur and has very little in terms of attendance.

[Big Dougie]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

That doesn't explain the practicality of putting prominent second teams in the professional structure.

For instance, in Croatia football outside the top division is virtually amateur and has very little in terms of attendance.

I’ve never said it was practical, all I wanted to do was understand the dynamics of the objections to the proposal.  In general terms I look at Spain and the way it operates for Madrid and Barca, and these teams seem to be good conduits for progression for younger players. However you could argue that they are viewed in a similar way to Rangers and Celtic here, and that it is resented there. 

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, Big Dougie said:

Croatia for instance, approx 60% of their World Cup final squad played “B” team football. With Spain I believe nearly all of their A squad played a significant amount of B team football.

I am not saying it’s right or wrong, my original question was a valid attempt at trying to understand the dynamics of the objections.

See on the Croatia one going by a quick look on wikipedia through their squad I saw very few credited with B teams or II (2nd) teams. Only two I think and one of them was a B team in France. Plenty of loans to smaller clubs in Croatia though.

Wikipedia isn't the greatest source, so wondering where the 60% comes from? 

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 minutes ago, Big Dougie said:

I’ve never said it was practical, all I wanted to do was understand the dynamics of the objections to the proposal.  In general terms I look at Spain and the way it operates for Madrid and Barca, and these teams seem to be good conduits for progression for younger players. However you could argue that they are viewed in a similar way to Rangers and Celtic here, and that it is resented there. 

I'm certain it would be great for them. I'm less sure it'll be any good for any other club.

[Big Dougie]

9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

See on the Croatia one going by a quick look on wikipedia through their squad I saw very few credited with B teams or II (2nd) teams. Only two I think and one of them was a B team in France. Plenty of loans to smaller clubs in Croatia though.

Wikipedia isn't the greatest source, so wondering where the 60% comes from? 

You could be correct, I read it as a stat somewhere, but it could be it includes loans.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Big Dougie

[BFTD]

2 hours ago, Big Dougie said:

I think it was the manner in which I was told that somewhat turned me against the idea. Manners really don’t cost anything, as has been proven by some subsequent excellent summaries of the situation. 

 

15 hours ago, BFTD said:

Nope.

Read back through the thread if you want a longer answer than that and really, really hate yourself  

I think I was very polite, considering you've waded onto a 177-page thread and asked a question that's been asked and answered dozens of times by this point.

[Big Dougie]

5 minutes ago, BFTD said:

 

I think I was very polite, considering you've waded onto a 177-page thread and asked a question that's been asked and answered dozens of times by this point.

I wasn’t necessarily directing my comment at you. I apologise to those who were upset by my question, but being new on here I thought I would see if anyone would offer a quick answer rather than having to trail through multiple pages.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, Big Dougie said:

I wasn’t necessarily directing my comment at you. I apologise to those who were upset by my question, but being new on here I thought I would see if anyone would offer a quick answer rather than having to trail through multiple pages.

Maybe we could use a single post that everyone can link to: here's why this is a terrible idea, the proposal is very much not what it's purported to be anyway, and the people behind it do not have the general health of Scottish football at heart. The general noises in support have amounted to, "well, it's better than doing nothing," and "GIRUY, it's happening whether you like it or not because WATP," which is thankfully demonstrably not true.

Someone else can fill in the blanks, the fact that the press keep running propaganda for the people proposing it has just sickened me with the whole thing.

[Big Dougie]

13 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Maybe we could use a single post that everyone can link to: here's why this is a terrible idea, the proposal is very much not what it's purported to be anyway, and the people behind it do not have the general health of Scottish football at heart. The general noises in support have amounted to, "well, it's better than doing nothing," and "GIRUY, it's happening whether you like it or not because WATP," which is thankfully demonstrably not true.

Someone else can fill in the blanks, the fact that the press keep running propaganda for the people proposing it has just sickened me with the whole thing.

Thanks for that summary, very much appreciated.