Old Firm Colts in L2

[Big Fifer]

Aye that was the second email of two, but I think the club seem reluctant to give an answer to a question that's hypothetical as they haven't been approached about it yet.

[Blue Brazil Forever]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

The f**k you on about then?

You asked, I answered.

[wastecoatwilly]

18 minutes ago, SimonLichtie said:

The irony of you saying it's not rocket science, but being unable to answer the absolute basics of the proposal and the current loan system, of which you've made plenty comments on both, is not lost on me.

Honestly, I'm embarrassed with myself for even trying to have a proper discussion about this with someone who doesn't know the basics.

Your lack of answers to any basic questions posed to you is, frankly, hilarious.

It's blindingly obvious that the majority of lower league clubs, the clubs this would affect are against it. You, sneering at the rest of us and our facts/ logic/ ability to answer basic questions, say 'it's going to happen'. Why would this proposal happen if the majority of the SPFL clubs are against it?

The reason i keep my anwsers brief is because im out working, the bottom line is will this proposal improve the youth development in this country plus there is a lot of unknowns and the effects on clubs.

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:

You asked, I answered.

Does everyone at Cowdenbeath get lessons on how to be an obtuse c**t or is it just personal choice?

[The Spider]

15 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

So you guys are more inclined to accept a B team rather than a colt team?

I'm fully in favour of that proposal. I think every full time club should have a B team in a league, and be joined by any part-time time team who are ambitious enough to have one. To begin with I would split all those B teams into two regional leagues into a new tier beneath the Highland & Lowland Leagues.

Obviously we'd take the best ideas from the Colts proposal, so that both the Old Firm teams pay for 500 tickets each time they play one of the part-time clubs' B teams away (thereby helping the Old firm B players develop by having more diddies to play against), and we'd also adopt the no promotion or relegation proposal too.

Only one other issue to be sorted, and that's what to call these new leagues. In the meantime, let's just give them working titles of Reserve League East & Reserve League West. All those in favour?

Right, that was easy. Next on the agenda...............?

[Blue Brazil Forever]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Does everyone at Dumbarton get lessons on how to be a  c**t or is it just personal choice?

Fixed it

[The Moonster]

Just now, Blue Brazil Forever said:

Fixed it

It's just personal choice.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, SimonLichtie said:

Now I'm not holding out much hope here, but can you explain this part to me?

You don't even understand the process this has gone through, a process which I fully understand, and you're trying to educate me on it

Ive posted it on the other thread,the working group accepted the proposal back in june of last year

[BFTD]

This is going to happen, lads.
It's going to happen.
It will happen.

...

Has it happened yet? It's going to, y'know.

[Bazil85]

59 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

The reason i keep my anwsers brief is because im out working, the bottom line is will this proposal improve the youth development in this country plus there is a lot of unknowns and the effects on clubs.

That's the thing. In no way, shape, or form is that the bottom line. This is tied to Project Brave and the SFA have consistently said they want to improve youth development to the point where Scotland get back to major tournaments. If you want to go down that as a 'bottom line' then you have to ask the question 'Will 19, 20 & 21 year old's playing in Scotland's fourth division create players good enough to one day take the national team to a World Cup?' The evidence all suggests absolutely not. We actually have tangible evidence of this in Rangers first team playing in League 2 six years ago. Not one of the young players from that squad (Even surrounded by more experienced players and working up through the divisions playing even better players) has turned into a World Cup quality player. Not one single player. So I'd say the evidence is against it. 

It isn't a bottom line kind of question for anyone though. There's way more that needs considered such as the below. I've noted where we do have evidence for the negative: 

• Will such a proposal impact relationships between L2 (and others) clubs and fans to the point where it'll turn real fans away from the game (Very likely yes)
• Will such a proposal benefit Celtic and Rangers above all other clubs (Yes)
• Does it present an issue for supporting integrity by putting the clubs in the middle of the pyramid and offering money to clubs to go against fans wishes (Yes)  
• Will it cost other teams promising young players as the Colts strengthen their squads following Challenge Cup failings (Very likely yes) 
• Will it cost teams loan players (very likely yes) 

This is all tangible or very close to tangible evidence that makes the Colt idea a very very very bad one. 

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

 the bottom line is will this proposal improve the youth development in this country 

If you can provide one single link or study which proves this point I'll bow out of this thread and never speak to you again.

If you can't provide one single link or study which proves this point you should f**k off out of this thread and never give an opinion on youth development again.

Deal?

[RiG]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

The reason i keep my anwsers brief is because im out working, the bottom line is will this proposal improve the youth development in this country plus there is a lot of unknowns and the effects on clubs.

I've this question several times and I still don't think anyone has ever answered it - how will having our young "brave boys" going up against some teachers and bin men in SPFL League 2 make them better? 

Far too many fans seem happy to equate "Colt teams in Spain + they are good at football = Colt teams in Scotland + they will become good at football". There are many more reasons why Spanish players are better than Scottish ones. Colts is not the reason for that difference.

Edited February 6, 2018 by RiG

[GordonD]

4 minutes ago, RiG said:

I've this question several times and I still don't think anyone has ever answered it - how will having our young "brave boys" going up against some teachers and bin men in SPFL League 2 make them better? 

I can think of one bin man I'd like to see the OF Colts go up against.

[Ivo den Bieman]

4 hours ago, SimonLichtie said:

The Daily Record, a highly reliable source ,has already reported 7 out of 10 League 2 clubs were for these proposals. Very naive of you to believe your board of directors over highly reputable journalists......

This whole thing is just classic politics really. Certain papers big something up massively to try and make it seem like you're in the minority if you're not for it, morons decide their opinion without reading the proposal, looking at the facts etc. and it's left to those of us who aren't lying and/ or braindead to actually look at things in proper detail and be able to properly argue our case on how fucking stupid this thing is.

Someone earlier mentioned the twitter comments in reply to Craig's tweet about Stenny not being for the idea and it being full of Old Firm fans going on about us 'holding Scottish football back'.

succulent lamb journalism + polyester clad morons who never actually go to a game are a surprisingly powerful lobby in debates about Scottish football.

most folk on here (and amongst lower league fanbases) seem dead against this proposal, and the emergence of near-unanimous opposition from the chairmen is heartening. 

should remember though that P&B, although a big voice, isn't exclusive. Plenty of people who don't bother with these or other forums are quite happy to take the word of the Jim Traynors and Chris McCarts of this world as gospel. The opposition to Craig G Telfer's tweet from bigoted arsecheeks demonstrates that.

[peternapper]

Spoiler

 

Yes surprizing how many supporters are not up to speed on this, have spoken to a few at matches etc that may have heard something in passing but not followed it up. Would suggest its well worth checking if your fellow supporters are informed about it so they hopefully realise the threat it is to league clubs. Our manager got some press coverage speaking out against it hopefully more can make it public.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Some of the tweets from the Scotland’s shame knuckledraggers in response to the Stenny position are tremendous. Just remember these are the people who thought Brown could save Rangers, these are the people who couldnt be bothered to save their own club and let another lot of shysters buy it. Lets all just let that sink in for a second and consider if their opinions on what’s healthy for Scottish football is worth giving any further thought to.

 

[BinoBalls]

57 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

succulent lamb journalism + polyester clad morons who never actually go to a game are a surprisingly powerful lobby in debates about Scottish football.

most folk on here (and amongst lower league fanbases) seem dead against this proposal, and the emergence of near-unanimous opposition from the chairmen is heartening. 

should remember though that P&B, although a big voice, isn't exclusive. Plenty of people who don't bother with these or other forums are quite happy to take the word of the Jim Traynors and Chris McCarts of this world as gospel. The opposition to Craig G Telfer's tweet from bigoted arsecheeks demonstrates that.

The beauty of the internet age is that, in days gone by, you pretty much had to form your opinions from whatever (biased) evidence you read in the papers or heard Gerry McNee saying on the radio.

Thick, petulant Old Firm fans don’t like it when they don’t get something they want.

“Yous are aw haudin back the Scottish game” — not one bit but I’m glad it ruined your day all the same. 

[wastecoatwilly]

As part of wider discussions regarding the production and development of elite young players in Scotland, particularly in the 17-21 age bracket, the SPFL is consulting with all member clubs to seek views in relation to the potential introduction of colt teams to the league pyramid.

This consultation exercise was discussed and approved by the SPFL’s Competitions Working Group comprising representatives across all four League divisions.

Clubs have been invited to respond with their views and once feedback has been assessed, the SPFL Board will consider next steps in relation to the potential for colt teams to be involved in the professional football pyramid.

This is taking from the SPFL website from the 9th of june 2017
how does that read to you guys?

 

 

•  

[cowdenbeath]

1 hour ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

succulent lamb journalism + polyester clad morons who never actually go to a game are a surprisingly powerful lobby in debates about Scottish football.

most folk on here (and amongst lower league fanbases) seem dead against this proposal, and the emergence of near-unanimous opposition from the chairmen is heartening. 

should remember though that P&B, although a big voice, isn't exclusive. Plenty of people who don't bother with these or other forums are quite happy to take the word of the Jim Traynors and Chris McCarts of this world as gospel. The opposition to Craig G Telfer's tweet from bigoted arsecheeks demonstrates that.

Very true Ivo, the initial Sunday Mail article breaking the story was just that with their 7 out of 10 League clubs happy with the proposal and given what was said at Stenny's meeting that appears to have turned out to be a lot of pish just like I thought it was.

As you say too many people will still believe whatever propaganda is spoon fed to "friendly journalists" and take it as gospel when infact its a lot of tosh.

[Doonhamer doon south]

Tonight is check a trade semi final between Lincoln city and Chelsea u21. I wonder what the attendance will be compared to a regular league match or cup game. Do their lower league clubs get bribes?