Old Firm Colts in L2

[Dunning1874]

On 30/01/2018 at 14:14, wastecoatwilly said:

Then the trickle down effect takes place with players going on to play at a decent level with other clubs.

Oh, this is a good one.

Specifically focusing on the 'trickle down' argument, please explain how exactly having Celtic and Rangers B teams in League Two will lead to the players who are released by Celtic and Rangers once they become too old for those B teams being better players than they would be under the current loan system.

I've already raised the example of Jamie Lindsay recently in this thread. I'll add Ryan Hardie, Tom Walsh, Joe Thomson, Paul McMullan. All of these players have been or currently are on loan to Championship clubs from Rangers or Celtic in the last two seasons.

Currently, when players like that who aren't good enough to make it to the first team at Celtic or Rangers are released, Championship clubs can pick them up as players who already have a season or two of experience at Championship level. If there are B Teams in the league, then at the time they're released they'll never have played at a higher level than League Two.

In what bizarre parallel universe will that make them better players or more likely to succeed for clubs in the lower leagues than they are currently? You're seriously trying to argue that playing in League Two is better for a player's development than playing in the Championship. This is blatantly utter nonsense.

All it's going to do for players who are capable of performing at a higher level than League Two is hold them back and deny them the opportunity to test themselves at a higher level like the Championship. It's bad for the players who don't get the chance to progress by playing at a higher level, and it's bad for Championship and League One clubs who have a source of signings cut off - this in addition to the fact that their own youth systems will already have been restricted by Celtic and Rangers hoarding even more youngsters than they already do.

Please either directly address these points in an attempt to justify your position, or hold your hands up and admit that you're talking complete bollocks because you don't have a clue about either youth development or the lower leagues.

[BerwickMad]

Looks like some Berwick fans are in support according to their facebook page where the asked for comments.
The ony way there board will listen is if there fans tell them.
https://www.facebook.com/BerwickRangers/
 

Apologies for the late reply, but the most positive comments are from Celtic fans.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

Oh, this is a good one.

Specifically focusing on the 'trickle down' argument, please explain how exactly having Celtic and Rangers B teams in League Two will lead to the players who are released by Celtic and Rangers once they become too old for those B teams being better players than they would be under the current loan system.

I've already raised the example of Jamie Lindsay recently in this thread. I'll add Ryan Hardie, Tom Walsh, Joe Thomson, Paul McMullan. All of these players have been or currently are on loan to Championship clubs from Rangers or Celtic in the last two seasons.

Currently, when players like that who aren't good enough to make it to the first team at Celtic or Rangers are released, Championship clubs can pick them up as players who already have a season or two of experience at Championship level. If there are B Teams in the league, then at the time they're released they'll never have played at a higher level than League Two.

In what bizarre parallel universe will that make them better players or more likely to succeed for clubs in the lower leagues than they are currently? You're seriously trying to argue that playing in League Two is better for a player's development than playing in the Championship. This is blatantly utter nonsense.

All it's going to do for players who are capable of performing at a higher level than League Two is hold them back and deny them the opportunity to test themselves at a higher level like the Championship. It's bad for the players who don't get the chance to progress by playing at a higher level, and it's bad for Championship and League One clubs who have a source of signings cut off - this in addition to the fact that their own youth systems will already have been restricted by Celtic and Rangers hoarding even more youngsters than they already do.

Please either directly address these points in an attempt to justify your position, or hold your hands up and admit that you're talking complete bollocks because you don't have a clue about either youth development or the lower leagues.

For me if you have 40 odd players in the 2 colt teams between the ages of 17-21 playing 1 or 2 full seasons in league 2 PLUS having players loaned out between the ages of 19-23 you are giving every player the opportunity to develop and gain vital experience against senior pros that they don't get playing in the development league.
The trickle down effect has always been there, with tons of players that don't make the grade, for me this proposal will increase the number of players staying in the game.

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

For me if you have 40 odd players in the 2 colt teams between the ages of 17-21 playing 1 or 2 full seasons in league 2 PLUS having players loaned out between the ages of 19-23 you are giving every player the opportunity to develop and gain vital experience against senior pros that they don't get playing in the development league.
The trickle down effect has always been there, with tons of players that don't make the grade, for me this proposal will increase the number of players staying in the game.

Can I just clarify again, because you seem to have real difficulty here - 17-21 year olds CAN BE FUCKING LOANED OUT TO LEAGUE 2 RIGHT NOW, YOUR COLT TEAMS ADD FUCKING NOTHING.

Jesus fucking wept how hard is this to understand.

[wastecoatwilly]

17 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Can I just clarify again, because you seem to have real difficulty here - 17-21 year olds CAN BE FUCKING LOANED OUT TO LEAGUE 2 RIGHT NOW, YOUR COLT TEAMS ADD FUCKING NOTHING.

Jesus fucking wept how hard is this to understand.

AND MAYBE YOU DON'T READ SO WELL, NOBODY IS SAYING THEY FUCKING CAN'T.
WE ARE DISCUSSING THE FUCKING PROPOSAL.

[The Moonster]

8 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

AND MAYBE YOU DON'T READ SO WELL, NOBODY IS SAYING THEY FUCKING CAN'T.
WE ARE DISCUSSING THE FUCKING PROPOSAL.

And I'm telling you exactly why the proposal is complete and utter shite, as is everyone else.

[DA Baracus]

Wastecoatwilly is quite astonishingly thick.

Donald Findlay/Cowden Cownoy is a knob.

'Colts' is a shite term and the proposal is even worse and will never work.

Fin.

[wastecoatwilly]

29 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

And I'm telling you exactly why the proposal is complete and utter shite, as is everyone else.

So its better to put 40 odd development players into league 2 on loan,do you live in the real world?

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

For me if you have 40 odd players in the 2 colt teams between the ages of 17-21 playing 1 or 2 full seasons in league 2 PLUS having players loaned out between the ages of 19-23 you are giving every player the opportunity to develop and gain vital experience against senior pros that they don't get playing in the development league.
The trickle down effect has always been there, with tons of players that don't make the grade, for me this proposal will increase the number of players staying in the game.

So you want Celtic to have two full squads, plus a youth squad, plus loaned out players, and you can't see any issue with stockpiling players in that manner? 

Darnell Fisher is another. He'd be in the Colt squad in League Two, or he'd be on loan to us. One of this situations lead to him actually learning where he should be on the pitch due to being guided by an experienced players beside him. 

[wastecoatwilly]

39 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

So you want Celtic to have two full squads, plus a youth squad, plus loaned out players, and you can't see any issue with stockpiling players in that manner? 

Darnell Fisher is another. He'd be in the Colt squad in League Two, or he'd be on loan to us. One of this situations lead to him actually learning where he should be on the pitch due to being guided by an experienced players beside him. 

Liam Henderson would be a better example loaned to rosenburg and hibs got a scottish cup medal and still couldnt make the grade at celtic,now in italy at bari,maybe one day he will put on a scotland top.

[The Spider]

6 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Liam Henderson would be a better example loaned to rosenburg and hibs got a scottish cup medal and still couldnt make the grade at celtic,now in italy at bari,maybe one day he will put on a scotland top.

Yes, I can see where you're coming from here. Rosenberg are Norway's top team and regular Champions League participants, whilst Hibs have been in several recent Cup Finals.............whereas had he been playing in a Scottish League 2 Colts team that would have made him better prepared for the transition to Celtic's first XI. Got to hand it to you Waster Wastecoat, you absolutely nailed it that time.

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

So its better to put 40 odd development players into league 2 on loan,do you live in the real world?

You are literally too stupid to debate. Goodbye.

[sjc]

7 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

You are literally too stupid to debate. Goodbye.

He fits right in with the Daily Record reader demographic tbh.......

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, The Spider said:

Yes, I can see where you're coming from here. Rosenberg are Norway's top team and regular Champions League participants, whilst Hibs have been in several recent Cup Finals.............whereas had he been playing in a Scottish League 2 Colts team that would have made him better prepared for the transition to Celtic's first XI. Got to hand it to you Waster Wastecoat, you absolutely nailed it that time.

He played with the colt team first before going out on loan,but it proves its not about celtic as plenty of fans think it is,we will never know if it could have made a difference or not.

[JakeSAFC]

Originally thought wastercoatwilly was looking for bites, but now genuinely believe he's just a very slow human being.

Very worrying.

[Loonytoons]

5 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

He played with the colt team first before going out on loan,but it proves its not about celtic as plenty of fans think it is,we will never know if it could have made a difference or not.

How is it NOT about Celtic? One of only two teams attempting to devalue a lower league.  One of only two teams trying to bribe (and bully given McCart's comments) and that have the finances, given the youth team criteria, to actually afford it.

Those opposed to this are hardly going to rage about Dundee or Kilmarnock are they?

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Loonytoons said:

How is it NOT about Celtic? One of only two teams attempting to devalue a lower league.  One of only two teams trying to bribe (and bully given McCart's comments) and that have the finances, given the youth team criteria, to actually afford it.

Those opposed to this are hardly going to rage about Dundee or Kilmarnock are they?

My point is there is no guarantees that any of the Celtic colt players will make the grade and be a regular player for celtic's first team,i was maybe a bit harsh on Liam Henderson as he has played 30 times for celtic's first team so it's decent for a 21 year old.Fans think this will only benefit Celtic, for me it only benefits the players in their development and education where ever they end up in their short career as a professional football player.hopefully they end up in a Scotland jersey.
I also think this thread would be pretty boring if everybody disagreed with this proposal, i agree with it and others disagree with it that's what creates debate keep it civil please.

[Loonytoons]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

My point is there is no guarantees that any of the Celtic colt players will make the grade and be a regular player for celtic's first team,i was maybe a bit harsh on Liam Henderson as he has played 30 times for celtic's first team so it's decent for a 21 year old.Fans think this will only benefit Celtic, for me it only benefits the players in their development and education where ever they end up in their short career as a professional football player.hopefully they end up in a Scotland jersey.
I also think this thread would be pretty boring if everybody disagreed with this proposal, i agree with it and others disagree with it that's what creates debate keep it civil please.

Nothing uncivil about my post.

[DA Baracus]

f**k civility. These proposals must be met with utmost hostility

[DA Baracus]

2 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

This. And bring yer maws.

Bring the whole fucking family