Colt teams - again

[Gordon EF]

12 minutes ago, Owsley said:

Gordon Waddell believes Rangers can afford to run another matchday operation. Bless.

They've selflessly offered to play every game away from home to avoid those costs as well. What a bunch of cunts.

[Owsley]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

They've selflessly offered to play every game away from home to avoid those costs as well. What a bunch of cunts.

This offer would certainly appeal if they put them in the Highland League. Never mind repairing Ibrox, coach trips to Wick and Brora would hurry along another liquidation.

[JakeSAFC]

Fantastic idea, just what us supporters of lower league clubs want, to be playing the arse cheeks colt teams.

Get this idea right in the fucking canal.

[Forest_Fifer]

This offer would certainly appeal if they put them in the Highland League. Never mind repairing Ibrox, coach trips to Wick and Brora would hurry along another liquidation.

Especially after the overnight stay in a 5 star hotel halfway there.

[theoriginalhedge]

We had a 17 year old on loan from Aberdeen yesterday who scored and got the MOM award on his debut.  I take it the Daily Ranger didn't pick up on this and the fact that players like Connor MacLennan already play in a fairly competitive U20s league and have picked up a fair bit of experience against players of their own age and ability. .  Coming to play for the likes of Brechin for a few games gives them a chance to shine and make a name for themselves amongst some more experienced players in a much more competitive environment .   

It was proved in the Challenge Cup this season that a full team of U20s will struggle to compete on a regular basis even in the 3rd tier and will probably further knock their confidence and development.  The current system gives them the chance to experience both environments without putting too much pressure on them to perform consistently at SPFL level.   Some like Connor will shine while others might need a bit more help when they go back to their parent club.   Is this not a more sensible way to develop youngsters ? 

[The Chlamydia Kid]

I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this. I haven't really seen a decent argument against it either other than just because folk hate the old firm.

[Compliment Sandwich]

1 hour ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this. I haven't really seen a decent argument against it either other than just because folk hate the old firm.

I think the argument against is that why should two established lower league teams be kicked out the league after circa 100 years to help the Old Firm develop their squad players?

I think the fact that this is even being discussed as a potential option also explains why so many people hate the Old Firm and the SFA.

 

[The Chlamydia Kid]

I think the argument against is that why should two established lower league teams be kicked out the league after circa 100 years to help the Old Firm develop their squad players?
I think the fact that this is even being discussed as a potential option also explains why so many people hate the Old Firm and the SFA.
 

Are 2 clubs being kicked out?

[holsten]

Heres my take on our poor show on our poor developement the last few decades ....only my opinion

1.No kids are playing street football anymore or kicking it off a wall blah blah .....utter pish I have a a teenage son who eats & sleeps football and a daughter who plays 11 a side as well and gets proper coaching and play in far better pitches, faciltys then I ever did ,anyone who ever played on black or red ash and have the notion that it made them a better player is talking pish .all it done was tear your legs to shreds .They also get advice on nutrition and looking after your body 

2.If you are signed in pro youth you can play for your school team and play with your mates ....truth is there is hardly any schools football teams now in secondary schools as health and safety is a nightmare and when it in our day especially in primary schools it was the norm for it to be the school janitor who ran the school team and stayed on the premises in his wee house ,most of these jobs are long gone and the jannie who works for cordia is more concerned about  his shit hourly rate he is on 

3.Kids are being scouted far to early ....yes I agree with this nothing worse than watching a player being picked up by a "pro youth" team and then coming back to his boys club a year or 2 later and feeling he is a failure at 14.Sad thing is there are boys in youth system who are "shirt fillers " and will be discarded when they are about 16 when the jump from under 16/17 ramps  up to under 20  as some boys physically are not developed enough

How are we not producing the King Kennys ,Souness ect my take on it is Football is too big a business now and only the best are getting to the top and there is far to many foreign players who have been introduced and not giving the youth boys a fair chance .The level of player now say in the EPL (Fitness,conditioning,nutrition and general looking after your body is on a different level to  1970/80)

Would Colt teams help the league nope ,does under 20s league help produce a better player to a certain extent yes when the boy are maybe 17 but at 20 no, but I do think the reserves league would be a better idea. 

Only my opinion and experience over the last 20 years with a teenage daughter and some to be 20 year old son who is stlll playing at a high level  

Do they still love playing football ,yes,does there da still enjoy watching them f**k aye ......whats the answer to improve our youth .....honestly f**k knows   

   

[btb]

OF Colt teams - Boooooooo!

[DestroyedByMadness]

7 hours ago, holsten said:

Heres my take on our poor show on our poor developement the last few decades ....only my opinion

1.No kids are playing street football anymore or kicking it off a wall blah blah .....utter pish I have a a teenage son who eats & sleeps football and a daughter who plays 11 a side as well and gets proper coaching and play in far better pitches, faciltys then I ever did ,anyone who ever played on black or red ash and have the notion that it made them a better player is talking pish .all it done was tear your legs to shreds .They also get advice on nutrition and looking after your body 

2.If you are signed in pro youth you can play for your school team and play with your mates ....truth is there is hardly any schools football teams now in secondary schools as health and safety is a nightmare and when it in our day especially in primary schools it was the norm for it to be the school janitor who ran the school team and stayed on the premises in his wee house ,most of these jobs are long gone and the jannie who works for cordia is more concerned about  his shit hourly rate he is on 

3.Kids are being scouted far to early ....yes I agree with this nothing worse than watching a player being picked up by a "pro youth" team and then coming back to his boys club a year or 2 later and feeling he is a failure at 14.Sad thing is there are boys in youth system who are "shirt fillers " and will be discarded when they are about 16 when the jump from under 16/17 ramps  up to under 20  as some boys physically are not developed enough

How are we not producing the King Kennys ,Souness ect my take on it is Football is too big a business now and only the best are getting to the top and there is far to many foreign players who have been introduced and not giving the youth boys a fair chance .The level of player now say in the EPL (Fitness,conditioning,nutrition and general looking after your body is on a different level to  1970/80)

Would Colt teams help the league nope ,does under 20s league help produce a better player to a certain extent yes when the boy are maybe 17 but at 20 no, but I do think the reserves league would be a better idea. 

Only my opinion and experience over the last 20 years with a teenage daughter and some to be 20 year old son who is stlll playing at a high level and getting payed for it (more than £1) and juggling an apprenticeship  

Do they still love playing football ,yes,does there da still enjoy watching them f**k aye ......whats the answer to improve our youth .....honestly f**k knows   

   

Great post mate.

Re: Street football...  this is one of the worst cliched excuses we get trotted out by the SFA goons.   Things like Coerver Coaching's drills/games/philosphy recreate the important elements of street football.   Academy/SFA coaching is all about pass, pass, pass.  The great English coach Mick Beale (then Chelsea head of youth, who recently left Liverpool as their u23 coach to move to Brazil)  did a workshop for the SFA about 5 years ago where he clearly told the pro coaches "Make your players as brilliant as they can be.  Help them learn moves, try things in games, I'll teach them to pass when they're 18".    I walked away from pro youth when a 12 year old team (u13s) were being taught to defend corners till they were bored shitless.  Why?  "We lose too many goals"... in non-competitive football.   Didn't matter the kids were short of confidence and couldn't get the ball in the box...

 

[ICTChris]

It's probably been posted here before but here's an article by Barney Ronay on Icelandic football and how they developed it

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/08/iceland-stunning-rise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback

Good little anecdote from Steven Lennon about Barry Ferguson

[The Chlamydia Kid]

Youth development isn't my area but there has to be some validity in the street football arguments- the more time you spend with a ball at your feet then the better you'll become. Is it not a bit over ambitious to think that kids should only learn through formal coaching?
Kids learn as much in general education or more outside formal school hours- why would football be different?

eWhen kids all played in the street it meant more kids engaged and spent longer with a ball at their feet- surely that has to be one factor in a list of many?

Again- I don't know figures but I would doubt there are anywhere near the same number of kids who kick a ball these days. Too many other things to attract and occupy their attention. Less folk kicking a ball means a more shallow pool from which to develop talent.

Going to organised coaching sessions for an hour or two a day isn't sufficient time to spend with a ball at your feet for those that do.

The level of fitness and nutrition might be on a different level to 30 years ago but it's still light years behind the continent. British young footballers in my experience are impressed with money, fame, women, cars- that's at the top of their list of wants out a footballing career once they start doing it full time.

Foreign boys are far more driven, mature and dedicated. I've seen it first hand at a top club.

Scottish boys spent their time looking up to players that placed the biggest bets, bought the flashiest cars or who showed the least fear/respect for the manager of the club. Meanwhile a true professional who played at the highest level well beyond the age most footballers retire and who took great care of himself was ignored as a role model.

I've seen top youths in football train and look after themselves and top youths in boxing look after themselves and it is totally incomparable. Footballers can absolve themselves of responsibility because it's a team sport and coast in training and life. If they can get away with skipping a session or putting in less effort then they will and they take full advantage of it. If any young boxer took such a lackadaisical and unprofessional to his training he'd learn a very sore lesson very quickly.

[DestroyedByMadness]

26 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

Youth development isn't my area but there has to be some validity in the street football arguments- the more time you spend with a ball at your feet then the better you'll become. Is it not a bit over ambitious to think that kids should only learn through formal coaching?
Kids learn as much in general education or more outside formal school hours- why would football be different?

I can tell you mate that the kids who are involved at boys club and academy spend an awful lot of time playing football away from organised level and any good coaching involves "homework" stuff,  kids are always encouraged to go away and try stuff they've learned and try to learn new stuff.  Note that the emphasis is on "Good".

The problem isn't at grassroots level,  that's thriving,  the problems are at the professional "academy" level and senior team development.  What happens when they get the talented kids there?   MacKay thinks we're missing the wee mythical street urchins who don't exist, but there are thousands of kids in academies who've been scouted there for a reason.

Someone mentioned Iceland above as an example of how things can be done.   I've no doubt as the article pointed out that there are a lot of well educated coaches there but their national team did well at the Euros for other reasons or we'd never be looking at their grassroots policies which will still take a decade to assess if they've worked or not.

Iceland and Wales had both either by luck or by design hit on the magic formula of having a team of experienced players at their peak and as such performed to their absolute maximum.

That has been a source of irritation for me for a long, long time with Scotland.

I cottoned on to a study of world cup winning teams a few decades ago (I think it was part of France's thinking when they'd flopped in the early 90s and were rebuilding from scratch in preparation for 1998) and I'm surprised it's never been studied in depth or utilized to help fashion a more successful national team.   They found that every team who'd won the world cup in modern history had a team that was loaded with players in their prime (24-30 y/o) who had amassed over 40 caps each.  You had the odd exception of a 30+ player and possibly one or so who had less.   But that core of experienced players who'd played a lot of games together at that level and had their on field communication nailed.

Look at every Scotland team and we have guys making their debuts in their 30s, kids with no experience desperately thrown in, or guys in their peak who've hardly played for us.   England's euros team were similar tbh,  it didn't surprise me at all that teams like Iceland or Wales did so well when you looked at the composition of their teams.   They all knew their jobs and they all worked well as a unit.

If Scotland had qualified for a tourney lately we'd not be having these discussions about youth development.  

We do have a lot of work to do on youth development but we need to get the national team sorted.   We do need to press the reset button and build a team that can both qualify for 2020 and 2022 tourneys,  we need to profile the players who could be there and get that experience in to them.   No more fucking about with Greers, Browns, Fletchers, Berras, etc.    We need to get guys like Tierney, Robertson, Burke, etc. formed into a team and get others involved now who'll be involved in those campaigns, instead of fucking about going nowhere.

I don't think players from 18-21 or that age will benefit for the absurdity of colt teams and leagues either.   The difference between Keiran Tierney and Alloa's Calum Waters is the difference we're talking about, even Scott Fraser who played for us.   Tierney doesn't need a season or 2 on loan.  Calum Waters may work his way back into the premiership but he'll never be Scotland material.  Scott Fraser owned League 2 but is he ever going to be the next Jim Baxter?

Kids who are at that elite level won't be needing to play against Elgin and Annan in colt teams.  Colt teams won't solve anything.

 

[Diamond8]

The posts on this thread are far too lengthy for a matter that should a be a non starter. f**k the old firm, f**k the sfa and f**k international football.

[NewHope]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

It's probably been posted here before but here's an article by Barney Ronay on Icelandic football and how they developed it

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/08/iceland-stunning-rise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback

Good little anecdote from Steven Lennon about Barry Ferguson

That's a great article. Thanks for posting it.

Iceland seem to have been doing so many things right; from jailing bankers to beating wankers.

It also looks like they don't throw carcinogenic hydrocarbons all over their kids' artificial pitches.

[andylivi1]

For anyone interested or on Twitter, I've came across and account @Nocoltteams (fans against colts) 

 

[Hampden Diehard]

I don't see much merit in flinging 11 kids in against men. Killie's weans looked lost against us. They really toiled with the physical side of the game. It's ok quoting the system in Germany, but their u20s are fitter, more physically developed and more skillful than their Scottish counterparts. That said, I don't have an alternative.

Celtic could, and should, be playing more kids, such is their dominance. So what if they lose a few games? They'll benefit in the long run.

[an86]

I'm just as well copying and pasting what I wrote the last time this clusterfuck of an idea was given an airing.

Anyone who wants Colt/B teams completely misses the point of what football is actually about. It's about two teams and two sets of fans turning up to cheer on their team and desperately want to beat the opposition. Nobody is ever going to have a conversation along the lines of "Who's yer team mate?" "<insert team> Colts." Nobody is going to turn up and support these teams and feel the elation/dejection that fans of proper clubs feel when their team does something great/shite. When you force something as synthetic as this into a competitive league, it saps away the very essence of everything that is great about what we currently have. 

[Hampden Diehard]

Forgot to add....feck the OF. The next time they do anything that doesn't smack of self-interest will be a first.

All joking aside, Lawell has the SFA and the SPFL in his pocket. Smaller clubs were bullied into the current voting set-up and have almost no say, let alone influence, on the game.