Kris Boyd & Jamie Fullarton

[NorthernLights]

1 minute ago, port-ton said:

Is there anywhere i can listen to either the Boyd/English discussion or the 5 live discussion with Barton etc?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrsc7/episodes/downloads

[capt_oats]

I thought Boyd was doing OK to begin with then slowly began to unravel.

It was interesting that the point at which he seemed to lose the thread was when he went off on one about; "what is Craig Levein's role" to which English plainly replied Director Of Football and Boyd really just gave himself up. He seemed to imply that there was favouritism at play going on to say it "doesn't take a genius" to work out what he meant when he called Cathro Levein's "boy" in his article. "he took him to Dundee United, had him involved with Scotland and now he's involved with Hearts".

That seems to be the nub of it. It's totally fair comment to say that Cathro hasn't managed before and it's equally fair to say that taking the head coach role is different to his position as part of a coaching team no one's actually denying that but when it comes down to it that's doesn't seem to be what's motivating the criticism from the likes of Boyd and Fullarton.

[Diamonds are Forever]

18 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I thought Boyd was doing OK to begin with then slowly began to unravel.

It was interesting that the point at which he seemed to lose the thread was when he went off on one about; "what is Craig Levein's role" to which English plainly replied Director if Football and Boyd really just gave himself up. He seemed to imply that there was favouritism at play going on to say it "doesn't take a genius" to work out what he meant when he called Cathro Levein's "boy" in his article. "he took him to Dundee United, had him involved with Scotland and now he's involved with Hearts".

That seems to be the nub of it. It's totally fair comment to say that Cathro hasn't managed before and it's equally fair to say that taking the head coach role is different to his position as part of a coaching team no one's actually denying that but when it comes down to it that's doesn't seem to be what's motivating the criticism from the likes of Boyd and Fullarton.

 

Yip, he said at the start how the criticism 'didn't bother him' and then proceeded to spend the next 15 minutes unraveling showing exactly how much it did bother him.

[ICTChris]

I heard a clip of Barton on Twitter, he's right to say the environment has changed, it's not old school anymore. I think Ryan McGowan said in Twitter that Cathro isn't taking charge of the Crazy Gang circa 1987, he's taking charge of a relatively young squad.

[capt_oats]

Just saw the clip of Barton on 5 live's Twitter. Boyd has absolutely no comeback.

[ALJAGS76]

Kris Boyd has obviously spotted a career opening trying to be a rangers friendly Chris Sutton.

[DC92]

Of course there are reasons to think that Cathro might not necessarily be a success; the most obvious one being that he's never been a manager/head coach before. I've actually had a hunch for a while that he'd end up bombing when he eventually did step into management, purely because we've seen it so often with "promising" young coaches or players who fail to make the step up. 

The problem with the criticism of Cathro isn't that it's completely without merit, it's that it's vastly disproportionate compared to countless other players/coaches who've made their first step into management. As far as I can recall, no-one in the media batted an eyelid when Gary Locke was appointed Hearts manager. There was no in-depth analysis of his role as chief cone-putter-outer under Jefferies/McGlynn, no intense public scrutiny of his social/interpersonal skills (or lack thereof) and no use of second-hand, easily disprovable rumours to disparage his character. After over a year as Hearts manager in which he showed absolutely nothing to suggest he was good at his job, he was let go, much to the apparent outrage of many the footballing fraternity.

Why isn't Cathro afforded the same luxury as Gary Locke, despite clearly having more credentials as a coach? 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

19 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Just saw the clip of Barton on 5 live's Twitter. Boyd has absolutely no comeback.
 

 

Boyd 

Incredible that any media outlet anywhere thinks the views of a vastly overrated and overweight seal clubber should hold any relevance whatsoever with football fans outside the average OF thicko. 

 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

10 minutes ago, DC92 said:

Of course there are reasons to think that Cathro might not necessarily be a success; the most obvious one being that he's never been a manager/head coach before. I've actually had a hunch for a while that he'd end up bombing when he eventually did step into management, purely because we've seen it so often with "promising" young coaches or players who fail to make the step up. 

The problem with the criticism of Cathro isn't that it's completely without merit, it's that it's vastly disproportionate compared to countless other players/coaches who've made their first step into management. As far as I can recall, no-one in the media batted an eyelid when Gary Locke was appointed Hearts manager. There was no in-depth analysis of his role as chief cone-putter-outer under Jefferies/McGlynn, no intense public scrutiny of his social/interpersonal skills (or lack thereof) and no use of second-hand, easily disprovable rumours to disparage his character. After over a year as Hearts manager in which he showed absolutely nothing to suggest he was good at his job, he was let go, much to the apparent outrage of many the footballing fraternity.

Why isn't Cathro afforded the same luxury as Gary Locke, despite clearly having more credentials as a coach? 

Good post.

There is a decent chance that Cathro might flop and saying so isn't a crime.  It's the lack of proportion and the personal nastiness of some of it though, that is kinda criminal.

[Malcolm Malcolm]

25 minutes ago, DC92 said:

Of course there are reasons to think that Cathro might not necessarily be a success; the most obvious one being that he's never been a manager/head coach before. I've actually had a hunch for a while that he'd end up bombing when he eventually did step into management, purely because we've seen it so often with "promising" young coaches or players who fail to make the step up. 

The problem with the criticism of Cathro isn't that it's completely without merit, it's that it's vastly disproportionate compared to countless other players/coaches who've made their first step into management. As far as I can recall, no-one in the media batted an eyelid when Gary Locke was appointed Hearts manager. There was no in-depth analysis of his role as chief cone-putter-outer under Jefferies/McGlynn, no intense public scrutiny of his social/interpersonal skills (or lack thereof) and no use of second-hand, easily disprovable rumours to disparage his character. After over a year as Hearts manager in which he showed absolutely nothing to suggest he was good at his job, he was let go, much to the apparent outrage of many the footballing fraternity.

Why isn't Cathro afforded the same luxury as Gary Locke, despite clearly having more credentials as a coach? 

That's a very good point, Locke has been protected from criticism to a remarkable degree.

[Guest Asap]

The same Kris Boyd that was a blubbering mess on BT a few weeks ago trying to defend Gordon Strachan has suddenly found balls from somewhere to try and attack a newcomer. 

 

Were honestly fucked as a football nation when people like Boyd are seen as some sort of authority on what changes should be made to Scottish football. So fucking depressing. 

[Steve McQueen]

Kris Boyd on 5 live podcast promoting the too many clubs shite

[jessmagic]

Proper Football Man e.g. Boydy, Fullerton, Locke, Lee McCullouch, Wee Bazza = Allowed to walk into jobs with impunity because they bantered over The S*n at Largs coaching courses.

At night they downed ten pints and set off the fire alarm. Therefore they were all part of the gang.

Cathro probably worked hard and kept his head down therefore was seen as weird and emotionally detached. Thus an easy target for the troglodytes.

Might be a good manager, might not. But this personal vitriol he is facing is just due to the fact he is not part of the chumocracy within Scottish football.

[theoriginalhedge]

13 hours ago, vikingTON said:

Perhaps he was being arrogant and disrespectful to part-time football, because he knows that it is a crap system stuffed with journeymen jumping from one pointless Angus club to another, over a fifteen year 'career'. If so, then that arrogance has served him well, as he won't be facing bumpkin outfits like yourselves again, other than for another Beith-style humping in the cups of course. 

This is one example of the intollerance which is holding back Scottish football. I realise you are on a trolling mission and don't really think this way but Scottish football has too many people (many with a bit of clout to promote it ) who genuinely spout this kind of garbage on a daily basis .  It somehow gives people a feeling of superiority and the more they spout it the more they believe it and the easily led follow like sheep whether they believe it or not.  

Until we get to the root of bigoted arrogance and ignorance our game will continue to bumble along the way it has done for the past 100 years with cronies looking after cronies,keeping the shop firmly closed to any form of advancement whatsoever.  Headlines in papers saying that Scotland is split over the Cathro's appointment sums this up. Cronieism of the highest order.  Dinosaurs trying to cling on to their ill gotten meal tickets, frightened that they will be found out to be the sheisters they really are. 

[bobbycoxblue]

Kris Boyd , pre make up.

[Dons_1988]

The ridiculous thing about this argument is fundamentally there is no problem with kris Boyd questioning the step up to manager, his article was just written in such a dismissive, disparaging manner that he came across like an absolute arsehole.

The debate on sportsound was a farce as they both fundamentally agreed, but Boyd was basically saying 'yeah all the pish I wrote was just to satisfy moron sun readers, what my point really is is this...'

A very sad indictment of what people like Boyd needs to be said to get a career in journalism.

[Dons_1988]

Also Boyd did that very weegie trait of 'I dinnae gie a f**k what you think of me but I'm still pure raging by the way'

[Pie Of The Month]

Kris Boyd that well known weegie who grew up 30 odd miles outside Glasgow. 

[ayrmad]

5 minutes ago, Pie Of The Month said:

Kris Boyd that well known weegie who grew up 30 odd miles outside Glasgow. 

Some of the posters are just showing the same level of laziness they attribute to Boyd and Fullarton.

[capt_oats]

The thing that Boyd seems to be having a difficulty with is the idea that perhaps his experience of Cathro isn't wholly representative.

Stripping things back Boyd's issue seems to be that having worked with him doing his pro license he's found Cathro to be "shy" etc. He seems to have looked at him and drawn the conclusion that the only reason Cathro's progressed has been down to him (in Boyd's eyes) being Levein's teacher's pet, for want of a better example.

It seems to be blowing his tiny mind that the reason that Cathro might be well-regarded by Levein, Nuno Santo, McLaren, Benitez et al is because he might actually be a very effective, impressive coach and that's the reason Levein has given him opportunities.

His argument about "he's never been in a dressing room and had to stand up to players" overlooks the notion that perhaps (by design?) the Hearts dressing room isn't filled with arseholes like Boyd and his ilk. The average age of their squad is around 25, their captain is 24, Djoum aside their key players are all early 20s indeed did Souttar not cite Cathro as an influence on his development at United? Assuming guys like him are in the dressing room and on board with Cathro as a coach then if he's effective in that role then he's making a good first impression. A coach who has made his name developing young players behind given a role where his remit is to get the best out of a talented group of young players, I can't see how that'll work.

As I've said Boyd, Fullarton et al are entitled to their opinions but the fact they don't seem to be able to comprehend why people are calling them out on their opinions seeming completely wrong-headed is remarkable tbqh.