Juniors in the big Scottish do we deserve to be there?

[1320Lichtie]

It will vary from club to club what the players get i suppose. The new league does have horrendous travelling but that is only because they were put in the West section (which is based around Elgin etc) as on longtitude, they are west of the dividing line. They thought they'd go into East whcih is Aberdeen-based. The top division in North is more Aberdeen-based so if they do go up, then most away games will be in Aberdeen.
 
 

Yeah I'm pretty sure that was the main reason behind the move, getting more Aberdeen games, they trained in Laurencekirk and had players from up that way so some of the games in the East were a fair trek for them.

[parsforlife]

Thing is at amateur level where the guys play to play, travel is self-funding. At Pollok for example, if we take a bus to say Dundee it's the best part of £500 out of club funds plus every player and coach on the bus is being paid to travel as well in their wages. The local amateur club here in Lochgilphead has its players pay £400 a season to play for them.

It's an interesting perspective to view travel cost as a bigger burden at semi-pro level than at amatuer.

[Cyclizine]

2 hours ago, parsforlife said:

It's an interesting perspective to view travel cost as a bigger burden at semi-pro level than at amatuer.

Another is the full-time/part-time paradox for the 'provincial' clubs. Since most players will be based in the bigger cities and towns, a full time provincial club will have to offer more than a city club to sign a player (wages, bonuses, perks) as the player will have to move to train full time. Part-time clubs can sign players who train in their home city and only travel to the provincial club every second weekend.

[WaffenThinMint]

3 hours ago, fueradejuego said:

I don't see what the senior clubs gain from this set up but it's clear that Junior clubs gain.

The one aspect that sticks out when you run through the clubs is the disparity in terms of facilities that they offer.

Why not simply disband the SJFA and have the junior teams form feeder leagues on a regional basis below the Lowland / Highland Leagues?

Minimal change in the short term and clubs have breathing space to undertake any necessary improvements to obtain licenses etc as they move up the ranks. You could possibly merge the South and East Leagues in  with the Juniors at the same time.

Both sides would gain from the reduced travelling increasing the chances of away fans turning up, but the sticking point is going to be facilities - & a big difference in mindsets.

For senior Lowland League clubs, looking like a "proper" club with a decent ground is paramount to showcase the club to their local community to attract support & sponsors. Junior clubs by & large don't care what shithole they're playing in & would sooner squander money on players - witness the initial dummy spitting when the Largs millionaires made it clear they were going to give Thistle a ground & facilities worthy of the town & weren't going to be buying them Scottish Junior Cups & Western League titles in perpetuum.

There are signs this mindset is starting to crack - witness Benburb's astute spending of their ground sale windfall - but they're rare birds indeed in the SJFA sanctuary. Much as I've an enormous soft spot for Arthurlie, Dunterlie Park is an H&S nightmare, & the only way those in charge will ever get their flaky pastry terracing & paving stones sorted will be under threat of closure, not before. Having promotion between the Juniors & some united SPFL/Lowland/Highland/Junior hybrid is a non-starter when only a handful of clubs are ever going to be in a position to meeting the stringent requirements.

The trouble with Burnie_Man's proposal (which to be honest looks like a carbon copy of the schematic I used for my modification of FIFA Manager seven years ago!) is he knows very well that if push came to shove there's not a snowball's chance in hell those Junior clubs the SPFL or Lowlands would love to acquire would accept it because it would mean kissing goodbye to the trophy hoovering days an alll too large chunk of their fickle fans must have & the thought of losing them isn't in their view worth the gamble for perhaps getting more money in a better run set up. The ones that will be most interested will be those with nothing to lose & for that matter nothing to add - Royal Albert & Division 3 in the 1920s all over again.

Linlithgow Rose may eventually lose patience & decide to throw in their lot with the Lowlands (although I reckon only if Bo'ness join them, & I don't see that happening any time soon), Irvine Meadow may be forced into it as the only way of turning around their financial fortunes by utilising their primary asset on a bigger stage, but they are likely to be the only ones. Hell will freeze over before Talbot say farewell to their endless summer in the Juniors.

[Sunrise]

33 minutes ago, WaffenThinMint said:

Both sides would gain from the reduced travelling increasing the chances of away fans turning up, but the sticking point is going to be facilities - & a big difference in mindsets.

For senior Lowland League clubs, looking like a "proper" club with a decent ground is paramount to showcase the club to their local community to attract support & sponsors. Junior clubs by & large don't care what shithole they're playing in & would sooner squander money on players - witness the initial dummy spitting when the Largs millionaires made it clear they were going to give Thistle a ground & facilities worthy of the town & weren't going to be buying them Scottish Junior Cups & Western League titles in perpetuum.

There are signs this mindset is starting to crack - witness Benburb's astute spending of their ground sale windfall - but they're rare birds indeed in the SJFA sanctuary. Much as I've an enormous soft spot for Arthurlie, Dunterlie Park is an H&S nightmare, & the only way those in charge will ever get their flaky pastry terracing & paving stones sorted will be under threat of closure, not before. Having promotion between the Juniors & some united SPFL/Lowland/Highland/Junior hybrid is a non-starter when only a handful of clubs are ever going to be in a position to meeting the stringent requirements.

The trouble with Burnie_Man's proposal (which to be honest looks like a carbon copy of the schematic I used for my modification of FIFA Manager seven years ago!) is he knows very well that if push came to shove there's not a snowball's chance in hell those Junior clubs the SPFL or Lowlands would love to acquire would accept it because it would mean kissing goodbye to the trophy hoovering days an alll too large chunk of their fickle fans must have & the thought of losing them isn't in their view worth the gamble for perhaps getting more money in a better run set up. The ones that will be most interested will be those with nothing to lose & for that matter nothing to add - Royal Albert & Division 3 in the 1920s all over again.

Linlithgow Rose may eventually lose patience & decide to throw in their lot with the Lowlands (although I reckon only if Bo'ness join them, & I don't see that happening any time soon), Irvine Meadow may be forced into it as the only way of turning around their financial fortunes by utilising their primary asset on a bigger stage, but they are likely to be the only ones. Hell will freeze over before Talbot say farewell to their endless summer in the Juniors.

You've written this before - and its also something you invented for green dots, as with most of your posts on Pie & Bovril. You're keen on quoting and fishing out old info yourself so, can you back it up? Make up your mind pal - its the bold bit below is true!

On 9/17/2016 at 00:28, WaffenThinMint said:

And again, no one is arguing for football Darwinism. But a set up such as the Juniors which encourages clubs to spend money solely on players at the expense of long term development on & off the field produces exactly the sort of "survival of the fittest" you are so against. In any case, there already is cherry-picking going on in the Juniors - it's called the Superleagues, in case you have not noticed.

But changing the set up to enforce minimum ground & facilities requirements within the higher echelons of the Juniors may stop the nonsense of sugar daddies coming in, spunking money on random clubs for players before buggering off once they get bored which is the bane of Junior football. Events at Largs Thistle are the shining example of "doing it right" - alas, they are the exception that tested the rule.

FWIW I disagree on regionalising the lower end of the SPFL currently as you'd simply not attract more support for the likes of Montrose, East Fife etc - its the SFA and SJFA who need to try something with Lowland/Highland level.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, WaffenThinMint said:

Both sides would gain from the reduced travelling increasing the chances of away fans turning up, but the sticking point is going to be facilities - & a big difference in mindsets.

For senior Lowland League clubs, looking like a "proper" club with a decent ground is paramount to showcase the club to their local community to attract support & sponsors. Junior clubs by & large don't care what shithole they're playing in & would sooner squander money on players - witness the initial dummy spitting when the Largs millionaires made it clear they were going to give Thistle a ground & facilities worthy of the town & weren't going to be buying them Scottish Junior Cups & Western League titles in perpetuum.

There are signs this mindset is starting to crack - witness Benburb's astute spending of their ground sale windfall - but they're rare birds indeed in the SJFA sanctuary. Much as I've an enormous soft spot for Arthurlie, Dunterlie Park is an H&S nightmare, & the only way those in charge will ever get their flaky pastry terracing & paving stones sorted will be under threat of closure, not before. Having promotion between the Juniors & some united SPFL/Lowland/Highland/Junior hybrid is a non-starter when only a handful of clubs are ever going to be in a position to meeting the stringent requirements.

The trouble with Burnie_Man's proposal (which to be honest looks like a carbon copy of the schematic I used for my modification of FIFA Manager seven years ago!) is he knows very well that if push came to shove there's not a snowball's chance in hell those Junior clubs the SPFL or Lowlands would love to acquire would accept it because it would mean kissing goodbye to the trophy hoovering days an alll too large chunk of their fickle fans must have & the thought of losing them isn't in their view worth the gamble for perhaps getting more money in a better run set up. The ones that will be most interested will be those with nothing to lose & for that matter nothing to add - Royal Albert & Division 3 in the 1920s all over again.

Linlithgow Rose may eventually lose patience & decide to throw in their lot with the Lowlands (although I reckon only if Bo'ness join them, & I don't see that happening any time soon), Irvine Meadow may be forced into it as the only way of turning around their financial fortunes by utilising their primary asset on a bigger stage, but they are likely to be the only ones. Hell will freeze over before Talbot say farewell to their endless summer in the Juniors.

Have to say mint man, you do have elements within your posts where you clearly have a good knowledge, but you are overwhelmingly disparaging towards the Junior grade and it's clouding your judgment. Your point about Dunterle is spot on, a quirkie charming Junior ground but I agree way off in terms of H&S. However, Linlithgow have a licence as does Banks O Dee, but a soules horrible ground a bit like Peasies but good to go, and Bo'ness is a cracking ground which would not take much. Meadow Park, Beechwood Park, Townhead Park, Portland Park, are all very good grounds. Pollok's is a cracking venue, but I fear it would be a H&S nightmare also due to the steep narrow terrace. I would suggest that the league below the top two in my proposal should have clubs who have a licence, or a clear plan and timescale to get one. The LL does have some serious anomalies regarding not actually having a ground but are tenants who could be homeless, Edinburgh City have to find a home while Meadowbank is redeveloped. BSC were in Maryhill's ground and there is absolutely no way that could have been granted a licence, the terrace is worse than Dunterle, no proper toilet facilities. I therefore think that it is not only some Junior clubs who could struggle on the stadium front. As for Talbot's endless summer, well I suspect they would be more than a tad interested in a regional non league set up as described. 

[Wile E Coyote]

 A lot of myths here that LL grounds are great because they have a licence. The actual ground requirements for a licence are not that high. BSC had a licence for Maryhill last year even although half the ground was closed because it was unsafe. Where junior clubs generally fall down is on the sundry issues such as size of dressing rooms, room for a massage table etc

[HibeeJibee]

Maryhill's ground was granted a licence.

From my own experience the difference tends to be the provision of a minimum standard of facilities - proper toilets, cover, and so on - but the bar isn't unobtainably high. Unless you believe the stuff about £100k toilet blocks and all that.

Why would the fact some clubs rent preclude them from getting a licence? Various clubs rent. Stirling Albion rent. Berwick Rangers effectively rent. Clyde rent.

Why would the fact Edinburgh City's ground happens to be getting rebuilt (maybe) preclude them?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Maryhill's ground was granted a licence.

From my own experience the difference tends to be the provision of a minimum standard of facilities - proper toilets, cover, and so on - but the bar isn't unobtainably high. Unless you believe the stuff about £100k toilet blocks and all that.

Why would the fact some clubs rent preclude them from getting a licence? Various clubs rent. Stirling Albion rent. Berwick Rangers effectively rent. Clyde rent.

Why would the fact Edinburgh City's ground happens to be getting rebuilt (maybe) preclude them?

I would like to know where Maryhill's ground toilets are? Clyde and Stirling were in trouble with regards to their tenancy, BSC seem to be nomads. Look I was only saying that it's not only Junior sides who could end up with ground issues. City don't know where they are playing next season and Meadowbank is not their ground.  By the way Talbot have recently opened modern toilet blocks and I know exactly how much it cost. 

[fan of the juniors]

I would like to know where Maryhill's ground toilets are? Clyde and Stirling were in trouble with regards to their tenancy, BSC seem to be nomads. Look I was only saying that it's not only Junior sides who could end up with ground issues. City don't know where they are playing next season and Meadowbank is not their ground.  By the way Talbot have recently opened modern toilet blocks and I know exactly how much it cost. 

Where is the new toilet isa? Never seen it on Saturday when I was down

[ICTPAISLEY]

Whenever I've been at maryhills ground I've used the social club for the toilet.

[WaffenThinMint]

58 minutes ago, Sunrise said:

You've written this before - and its also something you invented for green dots, as with most of your posts on Pie & Bovril. You're keen on quoting and fishing out old info yourself so, can you back it up? Make up your mind pal - its the bold bit below is true!

FWIW I disagree on regionalising the lower end of the SPFL currently as you'd simply not attract more support for the likes of Montrose, East Fife etc - its the SFA and SJFA who need to try something with Lowland/Highland level.

Sorry, but... Leave the obsession regarding dots nonsense to Talbot posters with dotting alias (albeit largely self dotting!) & those fuckwits from the GN section who come in to troll "Junior thickos" from time to time (although I'm glad to see most here have taken up my long ago warnings, stuck the main offenders on ignore, & so they are seldom to be seen now they cannot get a bite).

Actually what I said above had you bothered to read it properly was "witness the initial dummy spitting". Initial. See the difference?

After those at Largs with shall we say a "traditional" Junior mindset realised they could either get with the programme or GTF - because the money wasn't going to be wasted Geordie Walker style - they came on board & saw their club dragged kicking & screaming into the 21st century as a community club (ie. a real community club, not one merely doing the minimum in the hope of a few grants & bawbees from officialdom on the back of it, but as part of long term restructuring) which will self generate sustained support (& funding) over the long term rather than dependent on fickle fortunes on & off the pitch.

My point then, as now, stands.

38 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

Have to say mint man, you do have elements within your posts where you clearly have a good knowledge, but you are overwhelmingly disparaging towards the Junior grade and it's clouding your judgment.

Your point about Dunterle is spot on, a quirkie charming Junior ground but I agree way off in terms of H&S. However, Linlithgow have a licence as does Banks O Dee, but a soules horrible ground a bit like Peasies but good to go, and Bo'ness is a cracking ground which would not take much. Meadow Park, Beechwood Park, Townhead Park, Portland Park, are all very good grounds.

Pollok's is a cracking venue, but I fear it would be a H&S nightmare also due to the steep narrow terrace. I would suggest that the league below the top two in my proposal should have clubs who have a licence, or a clear plan and timescale to get one.

The LL does have some serious anomalies regarding not actually having a ground but are tenants who could be homeless, Edinburgh City have to find a home while Meadowbank is redeveloped. BSC were in Maryhill's ground and there is absolutely no way that could have been granted a licence, the terrace is worse than Dunterle, no proper toilet facilities. I therefore think that it is not only some Junior clubs who could struggle on the stadium front. As for Talbot's endless summer, well I suspect they would be more than a tad interested in a regional non league set up as described. 

^{I really, really, really wish you would learn to use bloody paragraphs. It's tortuous trying to read walls of text - I'm sure I can't be the only one wishing you broke it up a bit instead of us having to do it ourselves as above.}

My own disparagement towards the Juniors is largely down to the suspicion that they as a body have learned the sum total of zero from getting it completely wrong about the Lowlands & whose only motivation is sheer animal panic at realising they're going to be finding themselves getting left further & further behind those Lowland upstarts over time; not from any Corinthian sense of what is good for the game, good for fans, or even remotely good long term commercial sense.

As I said elsewhere, it smacks more of a certain scene in this year's season of Game Of Thrones.

Far too many clubs ideas of "transformation" is spending in order to look exactly like they did before, resulting in grounds that may be neat & tidy but still only considered respectable in a world that vanished fifty years ago - not in the least attractive to the modern fan which the Juniors badly need to replace those Junior fans thinning with every Evening Times obituary column. Especially - & this is the sticking point - fans you are expecting to pay hard earned cash to enter.

Pollok? The frightening part is they are still held up as an example of the best the Juniors has to offer. A semi-pro sports venue in the 21st century where fans are still expected to pish behind the fence is a bloody disgrace, & deep down you, Jamie Wire & everyone else in the Juniors knows it.

BTW, I've been against BSC from the start & it will come as a blessed relief when that fiasco is finally thrown out back to the amateurs where they belong - preferably taking CSS with them but my guess is the penpushers connections will always ensure rules are bent for them.

As I've said, the only way I reckon the Juniors will change is when some of the top dogs realise membership of an association that struggles to get sponsorship for its blue riband tournament & can't even produce proper fixture lists in advance is more trouble than its worth & jump ship - but I'm not holding my breath on that happening any time soon.

 

[Larky55]

No.

[GLESGABOY]

19 minutes ago, WaffenThinMint said:

Sorry, but... Leave the obsession regarding dots nonsense to Talbot posters with dotting alias (albeit largely self dotting!) & those fuckwits from the GN section who come in to troll "Junior thickos" from time to time (although I'm glad to see most here have taken up my long ago warnings, stuck the main offenders on ignore, & so they are seldom to be seen now they cannot get a bite).

Actually what I said above had you bothered to read it properly was "witness the initial dummy spitting". Initial. See the difference?

After those at Largs with shall we say a "traditional" Junior mindset realised they could either get with the programme or GTF - because the money wasn't going to be wasted Geordie Walker style - they came on board & saw their club dragged kicking & screaming into the 21st century as a community club (ie. a real community club, not one merely doing the minimum in the hope of a few grants & bawbees from officialdom on the back of it, but as part of long term restructuring) which will self generate sustained support (& funding) over the long term rather than dependent on fickle fortunes on & off the pitch.

My point then, as now, stands.

^{I really, really, really wish you would learn to use bloody paragraphs. It's tortuous trying to read walls of text - I'm sure I can't be the only one wishing you broke it up a bit instead of us having to do it ourselves as above.}

My own disparagement towards the Juniors is largely down to the suspicion that they as a body have learned the sum total of zero from getting it completely wrong about the Lowlands & whose only motivation is sheer animal panic at realising they're going to be finding themselves getting left further & further behind those Lowland upstarts over time; not from any Corinthian sense of what is good for the game, good for fans, or even remotely good long term commercial sense.

As I said elsewhere, it smacks more of a certain scene in this year's season of Game Of Thrones.

Far too many clubs ideas of "transformation" is spending in order to look exactly like they did before, resulting in grounds that may be neat & tidy but still only considered respectable in a world that vanished fifty years ago - not in the least attractive to the modern fan which the Juniors badly need to replace those Junior fans thinning with every Evening Times obituary column. Especially - & this is the sticking point - fans you are expecting to pay hard earned cash to enter.

Pollok? The frightening part is they are still held up as an example of the best the Juniors has to offer. A semi-pro sports venue in the 21st century where fans are still expected to pish behind the fence is a bloody disgrace, & deep down you, Jamie Wire & everyone else in the Juniors knows it.

BTW, I've been against BSC from the start & it will come as a blessed relief when that fiasco is finally thrown out back to the amateurs where they belong - preferably taking CSS with them but my guess is the penpushers connections will always ensure rules are bent for them.

As I've said, the only way I reckon the Juniors will change is when some of the top dogs realise membership of an association that struggles to get sponsorship for its blue riband tournament & can't even produce proper fixture lists in advance is more trouble than its worth & jump ship - but I'm not holding my breath on that happening any time soon.

 

No please do hold your breath........please!!!!!!

[Shanner]

Game of Cock Wombles. 

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

31 minutes ago, WaffenThinMint said:

Sorry, but... Leave the obsession regarding dots nonsense to Talbot posters with dotting alias (albeit largely self dotting!) & those fuckwits from the GN section who come in to troll "Junior thickos" from time to time (although I'm glad to see most here have taken up my long ago warnings, stuck the main offenders on ignore, & so they are seldom to be seen now they cannot get a bite).

Actually what I said above had you bothered to read it properly was "witness the initial dummy spitting". Initial. See the difference?

After those at Largs with shall we say a "traditional" Junior mindset realised they could either get with the programme or GTF - because the money wasn't going to be wasted Geordie Walker style - they came on board & saw their club dragged kicking & screaming into the 21st century as a community club (ie. a real community club, not one merely doing the minimum in the hope of a few grants & bawbees from officialdom on the back of it, but as part of long term restructuring) which will self generate sustained support (& funding) over the long term rather than dependent on fickle fortunes on & off the pitch.

My point then, as now, stands.

^{I really, really, really wish you would learn to use bloody paragraphs. It's tortuous trying to read walls of text - I'm sure I can't be the only one wishing you broke it up a bit instead of us having to do it ourselves as above.}

My own disparagement towards the Juniors is largely down to the suspicion that they as a body have learned the sum total of zero from getting it completely wrong about the Lowlands & whose only motivation is sheer animal panic at realising they're going to be finding themselves getting left further & further behind those Lowland upstarts over time; not from any Corinthian sense of what is good for the game, good for fans, or even remotely good long term commercial sense.

As I said elsewhere, it smacks more of a certain scene in this year's season of Game Of Thrones.

Far too many clubs ideas of "transformation" is spending in order to look exactly like they did before, resulting in grounds that may be neat & tidy but still only considered respectable in a world that vanished fifty years ago - not in the least attractive to the modern fan which the Juniors badly need to replace those Junior fans thinning with every Evening Times obituary column. Especially - & this is the sticking point - fans you are expecting to pay hard earned cash to enter.

Pollok? The frightening part is they are still held up as an example of the best the Juniors has to offer. A semi-pro sports venue in the 21st century where fans are still expected to pish behind the fence is a bloody disgrace, & deep down you, Jamie Wire & everyone else in the Juniors knows it.

BTW, I've been against BSC from the start & it will come as a blessed relief when that fiasco is finally thrown out back to the amateurs where they belong - preferably taking CSS with them but my guess is the penpushers connections will always ensure rules are bent for them.

As I've said, the only way I reckon the Juniors will change is when some of the top dogs realise membership of an association that struggles to get sponsorship for its blue riband tournament & can't even produce proper fixture lists in advance is more trouble than its worth & jump ship - but I'm not holding my breath on that happening any time soon.

 

Excellent post .

[cmontheloknow]

8 hours ago, WaffenThinMint said:

 

 

Pollok? The frightening part is they are still held up as an example of the best the Juniors has to offer. A semi-pro sports venue in the 21st century where fans are still expected to pish behind the fence is a bloody disgrace, & deep down you, Jamie Wire & everyone else in the Juniors knows it.

 

 

 

I don't believe I've ever said Newlandsfield was the best the Juniors has to offer - though I would argue it is one of the best Junior grounds from which to watch a game. It has seen better days and facilities-wise is sorely lacking. That said, there is a ladies in the pavilion and the old social club is accessible at half time. There are alternatives to the al fresco swamp.

[fueradejuego]

12 hours ago, WaffenThinMint said:

Both sides would gain from the reduced travelling increasing the chances of away fans turning up, but the sticking point is going to be facilities - & a big difference in mindsets.

For senior Lowland League clubs, looking like a "proper" club with a decent ground is paramount to showcase the club to their local community to attract support & sponsors. Junior clubs by & large don't care what shithole they're playing in & would sooner squander money on players - witness the initial dummy spitting when the Largs millionaires made it clear they were going to give Thistle a ground & facilities worthy of the town & weren't going to be buying them Scottish Junior Cups & Western League titles in perpetuum.

There are signs this mindset is starting to crack - witness Benburb's astute spending of their ground sale windfall - but they're rare birds indeed in the SJFA sanctuary. Much as I've an enormous soft spot for Arthurlie, Dunterlie Park is an H&S nightmare, & the only way those in charge will ever get their flaky pastry terracing & paving stones sorted will be under threat of closure, not before. Having promotion between the Juniors & some united SPFL/Lowland/Highland/Junior hybrid is a non-starter when only a handful of clubs are ever going to be in a position to meeting the stringent requirements.

The trouble with Burnie_Man's proposal (which to be honest looks like a carbon copy of the schematic I used for my modification of FIFA Manager seven years ago!) is he knows very well that if push came to shove there's not a snowball's chance in hell those Junior clubs the SPFL or Lowlands would love to acquire would accept it because it would mean kissing goodbye to the trophy hoovering days an alll too large chunk of their fickle fans must have & the thought of losing them isn't in their view worth the gamble for perhaps getting more money in a better run set up. The ones that will be most interested will be those with nothing to lose & for that matter nothing to add - Royal Albert & Division 3 in the 1920s all over again.

Linlithgow Rose may eventually lose patience & decide to throw in their lot with the Lowlands (although I reckon only if Bo'ness join them, & I don't see that happening any time soon), Irvine Meadow may be forced into it as the only way of turning around their financial fortunes by utilising their primary asset on a bigger stage, but they are likely to be the only ones. Hell will freeze over before Talbot say farewell to their endless summer in the Juniors.

The travelling issue has been explored. It has positives and negatives but there is very little difference overall.

With regard to more local games, if I'm a Clyde fan, I'd rather watch my team play Queens Park and Albion Rovers etc. than Kirkintilloch Rob Roy.

Maybe over time that would change but initially, such a game wouldn't hold any appeal.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, fan of the juniors said:

Where is the new toilet isa? Never seen it on Saturday when I was down

My man, I hope not being able to find our new state of the art toilet facilities didn't take the shine of the result, another notch on the belt over Talbot. The gents block is along a bit from the pie hut, Ladies and wheelchair access is next to the shed behind the goal. All singing all dancing, hot water, soap dispensers, heaters the lot! Junior football is being dragged into the 21st century despite what some say.

[fueradejuego]

44 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

My man, I hope not being able to find our new state of the art toilet facilities didn't take the shine of the result, another notch on the belt over Talbot. The gents block is along a bit from the pie hut, Ladies and wheelchair access is next to the shed behind the goal. All singing all dancing, hot water, soap dispensers, heaters the lot! Junior football is being dragged into the 21st century despite what some say.

I'm glad you agree that Junior football is being dragged into the 21st Century.