The Official Former President Trump thread

[welshbairn]

22 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

They don't have to,they crippled the Soviet union without doing that.There will definitely be some form of comflict.

Only because the Russians were daft enough to try to compete with America's insane pork belly fed military expenditure. The Chinese are quietly spending their money on building trade infrastructure and global relationships whilst America are severing theirs. America bombing China would be utterly pointless, it wouldn't save their export dependent farmers or even their tech industries, tariff wars are making China a more attractive trade partner for European manufacturers than the US. America will end up as a massively overarmed hermit state who nobody can be bothered fighting with, nor need to. Countries and firms are already finding ways to avoid the dollar based financial system that can no longer be relied on as a neutral means of exchange. The Project for the New American Century is rapidly becoming the project to find clothes for the mad Emperor. If they'd rather withdraw from all the international agreements they set up after WW2 to find the time to do that, let them. The world will carry on without them.

[RiG]

Respect to Americans willing to sacrifice up to 11.5 million people to keep the economy going  

 

[dorlomin]

14 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Or, on the other hand, as America retreats into isolationism, and the rest of the world gets tired of them abusing their control over the financial system to arbitrarily blockade countries across the globe, they'll become an impotent embarrassing uncle that everyone smiles to but ignores, and gets back to business without them.

America is not retreating to isolationism. It is just rejecting the post war world order. In the late 40s it put together a series of bodies aimed at promoting liberal democracy around the world. Things like the IMF, NATO, UN, etc were all built to uphold a set of values. They were not aimed at making the US the worlds total over lord but at promoting other countries to become mini Americas and share in the same system. This was hugely successful in countries in western Europe and some east Asian states like Japan and the RoK. So over time the appeal of Soviet style communism was diminished when set against what other war torn countries like Germany and Japan had become. The US promoted a variation of free trade that for decades seen a steady tearing down of the trade barriers erected as a response to the depression and war. The sheer dominance of the US navy meant it could guarantee world trade, much like the British had done for the previous 100 years. The US lost massive amounts of share in global trade to countries in many cases it literally occupied. This was a deliberate plan. Come the 1980s its allies had very strong economies that built their own weapon systems and created a defense system that the USSR could not compete with. On that side of the curtain the USSR had done as much as possible to remain the total hegemon of political and economic power. 

Post the cold war the sameish system was rolled out for much of the world. Decolonised countries had often gone to the USSR for its models of development. Now they were mostly invited to become part of the liberal economic democratic world. But that world is now falling apart. Autocracy is rapidly growing and their economies are often fueled by the US guaranteed free trade. So China is selling its goods to the US, EU and world on shipping lanes patrolled by US warships, into developing economies receiving billions in US and EU aid, with more aid coming from UN bodies whos funding is dominated by western cash but whos running is now in the hands of countries with anti western agendas. 

The above is very condensed and skips over many of the well trodden talking points of the "left". So it looks unfamiliar to those who have been trained for decades to see the US as the enemy of everything. 

The US is pulling apart the world order it funded because its no longer serves its purpose in political terms. Russia is a total basket case that would be crushed by the Poles if they invaded, let alone reaching the Bundeswehr. So NATO does not really serve much point, other than as a way of integrating east European and UK forces with the US. That is why Trump is not getting much push back from the US right on that front. 

UN bodies are increasing pulling in a pro China\anti US direction. Tedros just made this all obvious to the US public. The US right has been hopping mad about if for years. The catastrophe of Trump in many ways allowed them to accelerate their agenda of ripping up the old order and weaponising the $55 billion a year in aid the US dishes out to the world. When the Democrats come to power they will restore funding to the UN, but will inherent a world in which there is a far higher expectation of the US to use its aid to force people to tow a line. 

Take the WTO, the US is refusing to appoint judges . This means that trading blocks like the EU and countries like the UK and China will have to forge their own free trade arrangements. The US will pick and chose who gets to sell it stuff and why. 

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Only because the Russians were daft enough to try to compete with America's insane pork belly fed military expenditure

The Soviets alwasy spent far more of their GDP on defense than the US, turns out having the better economic system and spreading it to your allies means you can do more with less of your GDP.

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The Chinese are quietly spending their money on building trade infrastructure and global relationships 

The Soviets did this to a far greater degree all over the world. The Soviets paid for projects all over the world, famously the Aswan dam. Its comical you do not know something this basic. And the belt and road initiative is ummmm.... well its building things where Japanese, German and US banks do not think they can make much money from. A railway across all over Eurasia to compete with shipping? Ports in Pakistan to export what? Certainly not Chinese goods as getting the over the Himalayas is a bit of a mission. Chinas plans were drawn up when they thought they could swallow losses with national GDP growth of 12% per year, before Covid 19 that had dropped to 6% per year, the difference between the two over 20 years? Starting at 100 20 years of 12% growth gives 964 units while 20 years at 6% growth gives 320 units. If they can sustain 6% growth they still miss their targets by 300%. 

And their ability to sustain even 6% growth is a very serious question. On top of that its widely thought their current growth has been over hyped enough years to be significantly smaller than it is

https://www.ft.com/content/961b4b32-3fce-11e9-b896-fe36ec32aece

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 America bombing China would be utterly pointless, it wouldn't save their export dependent farmers

Worlds population is growing. 

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ariff wars are making China a more attractive trade partner for European manufacturers than the US

Except China has serious tariffs and outright thieves all technology it can. And lets look at those markets. 

 

Chinas labour pool is shrinking rapidly. That means its ability to be a low labour cost producer is going. Its ability to be a consumer will be going. 

 

Germany has half as many people aged 10-15 as it does people aged 55-59. Who is China\Germany (both huge exporters) going to be selling too? 

There is a market that will hold together for a bit.There is a country that will have someone working able to pay for pensions unlike China\Germany. 

The US actually has more people aged 25-29 than any other age group. 

Now lets look at a growing market. 

Far more economically advanced than Africa, close to the US border, huge growing labour pool and huge growing economy. 

 

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Countries and firms are already finding ways to avoid the dollar based financial system that can no longer be relied on as a neutral means of exchange. 

 

If you read Zero Hedge or Inforwars. If you read the FT or Economist, not so much. Its the same wailing we have been hearing for years, either for liberatarian gold bug freaks or far left losers in their mums basement with "collapsing Empire due to Tehran going for the Euro"

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If they'd rather withdraw from all the international agreements they set up after WW2 to find the time to do that, let them

Allow me to take your opinion on this matter as poorly informed, poorly thought through and of little weight. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by dorlomin

[Detournement]

Automation means you won't need as many low wage workers in the future. Low wage workers are essential for profitable return on capital but not production. The USA has just handed it's failing corporations their third massive bailout in 20 years as well pumping I huge amounts of QE. China is also vulnerable to crisises of capital as well but the CCP will handle it very differently to the GOP/DNC/Goldman clique. 

It is obviously correct that the USA won the arms race by having a bigger Empire than the Soviets. This contest is entirely different though as Chinese expansion is based entirely on the dollar. America is funding China not only through direct consumption but also by enforcing dollar hegemony which pays for and guarantees the success of China's diplomacy. 

It's too late for protectionism to halt China as they are the most important nation in global production and non US markets are more than enough to maintain that status quo even in the unlikely event the completely disfunctional American political system can end their reliance on Chinese production. 

 

 

[RiG]

Trump claiming that USA has done more / better than South Korea RT testing for COVID-19. 

On 15th April the US declared 29,465 new cases. South Korea declared, erm, 22.

Total confirmed cases in the US stand at 678,210. South Korea has a ridiculous, um, 10,635.

Great job Mr President! 

 

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, dorlomin said:

Allow me to take your opinion on this matter as poorly informed, poorly thought through and of little weight. 

How rude!

[NotThePars]

4 hours ago, RiG said:

Respect to Americans willing to sacrifice up to 11.5 million people to keep the economy going  

 

Aztec society

[Johnstoun]

He probably means as a percentage of mortality rather than population, so only 400-500 teachers and a few dozen kids.

[thisal]

No he's not expecting anyone to fall to Covid-19. He's talking about shootings.

 

[BFTD]

"Appetizing opportunity".

Positively mouthwatering, mate.

[AUFC90]

They don't have to,they crippled the Soviet union without doing that.There will definitely be some form of comflict.

China aint the Soviet Union. They ain't a union of anything, they've been the same China for a thousand years. They have the largest population and the largest manufacturing base in the world. They're no going to collapse like the Soviets and the Americans will just have to lump it.

 

[AUFC90]

Allow me to take your opinion on this matter as poorly informed, poorly thought through and of little weight. 

Wait ? Whit ? Poland would beat Russia in a war ? [emoji23] You have lost any right to be taken seriously.

 

[RedEd]

12 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

Wait ? Whit ? Poland would beat Russia in a war ? You have lost any right to be taken seriously.

 

They did in 1920. 

[welshbairn]

Trump responds to his base.

 

[stanton]

Mask wearing people carrying arms defending their second amendment rights, just when you think Trump & the USA can't get any crazier 

[Suspect Device]

21 hours ago, RiG said:

Trump claiming that USA has done more / better than South Korea RT testing for COVID-19. 

On 15th April the US declared 29,465 new cases. South Korea declared, erm, 22.

Total confirmed cases in the US stand at 678,210. South Korea has a ridiculous, um, 10,635.

Great job Mr President! 

 

 

I feel bad defending the orange man child but America has carried out 10,815 test per 1m population, South Korea has carried out 10,659.

So on this occasion Trump is actually telling the truth. It doesn't happen very often.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Wouldn't say they're doing better on any other measure though.

Cases - US 2,146 per 1m, South Korea 208 per 1m.

Deaths - US 112 per 1m, South Korea 5 per 1m.

 

 

[welshbairn]

[BFTD]

The list of good guys:

Some Mexicans, I assume; the ones who aren't murderers, rapists, etc.

Some white nationalists; the ones who are very fine people.

Gun-totin' proto-insurgents, but only the responsible ones who've been treated badly in Democrat states.

I've bound to have forgotten some.

[NotThePars]

On 17/04/2020 at 20:23, RedEd said:

They did in 1920. 

They fought the Red Army to a draw while the Red Army appeared to be square going the entire world.

Edited April 18, 2020 by NotThePars

[Granny Danger]

To avoid any responsibility for his mishandling of this crisis Trump will try to blame China by claiming they deliberately started it.

His lack of rectitude is only matched by the outright stupidity of his supporters.