Savage Henry Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 The fact is that Trump is the only one among them who has not started or escalated a war, every President since Roosevelt was responsible for wars, even Carter gave 300, 000 USD to the Mujahadeen. It could be argued that it is preferential to have an idiot in The Whitehouse than one who squanders young men and womens lives in the false belief that is for the free world when in reality it is to be the top dog. Trump has pulled American forces out of conflict areas. As long as he thinks he's the worlds big shot business man pulling off daft deals then better that than people dying needlessly. We all know he's a posturing fool but it's better that than the likes of Nixon ordering the napalm bombing of Women and Kids. As Churchill said meeting Jaw to Jaw is better than War War, I know which I prefer. You keep saying this. It’s manifestly not true. Relationships between the US and Iran are as bad as they’ve been in decades. US forces are now in Saudi Arabia protecting against a non-existent threat. If he’s done nothing else, and fortunately he hasn’t, Trump has escalated tensions in the Persian gulf to ridiculous levels. Edit: he’s also had US forces running around Northern Iraq and Syria for the last year and a half. And in case you didn’t notice, the US troops never actually left Afghanistan either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Think that was about the only thing Blair was actually sincere about, he joined the Catholic Church soon after leaving office. He's just playing the odds in case God is real. If you are a Prod and kill a million Iraqis then it's straight to hell do not pass go do not collect £200. RC's only need to say to confess and say a few Hail Marys and eternal paradise awaits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: Relationships between the US and Iran are as bad as they’ve been in decades. Because the IRG is moving in on Iraq as America moves out. Quote US forces are now in Saudi Arabia protecting against a non-existent threat. The US just pulled its Patroit Batteries out of KSA. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/remove-patriots-military-assets-saudi-arabia-200507183258484.html Quote Trump has escalated tensions in the Persian gulf to ridiculous levels. He has had a minimal impact other than the obvious that the locals are having to fight it out as the US pulls out. Quote Edit: he’s also had US forces running around Northern Iraq and Syria for the last year and a half. A small force assisting in the defeat of the Islamic State. He then left his allies in the lurch to the genocidal maniac in Damascus. You have the typical view of only ever seen the US as being capable of "agency", the exercise of free will. Everything bad in the region is down to bad America. https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/us-saudi-drawdown-threatens-new-gulf-arms-race/ https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/opinion/2020/05/197_289651.html Asia is starting to panic. It relies on Middle Eastern oil and gas. The US had been energy independent, though the post COVID crash may change that. Trump is pulling back from many of the US world commitments. The post WW2 order is dying, key nations are ageing and their economies face contraction. His policies are incoherent, contradictory and totally lacking in strategy. But the tensions in the region are most down to the regional heavy weights funding massive proxy wars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 A small force assisting in the defeat of the Islamic State. He then left his allies in the lurch to the genocidal maniac in Damascus. You have the typical view of only ever seen the US as being capable of "agency", the exercise of free will. Everything bad in the region is down to bad America. https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/us-saudi-drawdown-threatens-new-gulf-arms-race/ https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/opinion/2020/05/197_289651.html Asia is starting to panic. It relies on Middle Eastern oil and gas. The US had been energy independent, though the post COVID crash may change that. Trump is pulling back from many of the US world commitments. The post WW2 order is dying, key nations are ageing and their economies face contraction. His policies are incoherent, contradictory and totally lacking in strategy. But the tensions in the region are most down to the regional heavy weights funding massive proxy wars.Apologise for Trump all you want, but the fact is the most recent movements of troops in the region increased the presence of the US, not lessened it, and when Trump says he’s withdrawing forces, most of the time nothing of the sort happens. What he has done is remove US consular presence (90% of the US presence in, say, Iraq, has nothing to do with military anyway) while maintaining or increasing the military numbers. You may also have missed the US taking out an Iranian military commander - certainly doing nothing to ease tensions, and nothing to do with any straw man argument about Tehran and Baghdad. But besides that, tensions aren’t simply affected by hard power military. Sanctions on Tehran have had catastrophic results in medical provision, not just in Iran, but for most of the area which has relied on Iran as the last best hope for medical care.Try telling the Kurds in Erbil that the US isn’t about “agency”; it was very nice of you to provide us all with a Modern Studies definition, by the way. You can’t remove the US from the “Middle East” without accounting for the structure it provides or the ethics of its presence - it’s a far more complex issue than you are making out, and just pretending it’s all about numbers is serving only Trump’s agenda. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 29 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: Apologise for Trump all you want, but the fact is the most recent movements of troops in the region increased the presence of the US, not lessened it, I linked to the source. Quote You may also have missed the US taking out an Iranian military commander I suspect the region is slightly more complex than you are willing to grasp. Quote Sanctions on Tehran have had catastrophic results So catastrohic they started funding Houthi rebels and supported Damascus. Quote Try telling the Kurds in Erbil that the US isn’t about “agency” I think we have exceeded your capacity to engage constructively. Quote t’s a far more complex issue than you are making out One of us is as thick as pigshit. We shall just have to disagree on which one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Savage Henry said: You keep saying this. It’s manifestly not true. Relationships between the US and Iran are as bad as they’ve been in decades. US forces are now in Saudi Arabia protecting against a non-existent threat. If he’s done nothing else, and fortunately he hasn’t, Trump has escalated tensions in the Persian gulf to ridiculous levels. Edit: he’s also had US forces running around Northern Iraq and Syria for the last year and a half. And in case you didn’t notice, the US troops never actually left Afghanistan either. My statement is that Trump has not started or escalated a war, unless you can name a war that he is singly responsible for it is true. Bad relationships between countries is not a war. US troops protecting a corrupt Saudi is not a war. Yes the US have troops on the ground in Iraq along with Britain, and France withdrew theirs in Feb this year due to the corona virus, Syria has a few hundred US troops in a base there. The US has troops based in numerous countries throughout the world including ours, the military is big business for the states. In February this year an agreement was signed between the US and the Taliban that all American forces will be removed from Afghanistan over the next 14 months. Trump has angered numerous countries with his posturing and sanctions but and I'll say this again, the biggest fool in politics has not started or escalated a war in the almost four years he's been in office. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said: My statement is that Trump has not started or escalated a war, unless you can name a war that he is singly responsible for it is true. Bad relationships between countries is not a war. US troops protecting a corrupt Saudi is not a war. Yes the US have troops on the ground in Iraq along with Britain, and France withdrew theirs in Feb this year due to the corona virus, Syria has a few hundred US troops in a base there. The US has troops based in numerous countries throughout the world including ours, the military is big business for the states. In February this year an agreement was signed between the US and the Taliban that all American forces will be removed from Afghanistan over the next 14 months. Trump has angered numerous countries with his posturing and sanctions but and I'll say this again, the biggest fool in politics has not started or escalated a war in the almost four years he's been in office. Aye he’s a great guy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Detournement said: For GWB to be competent you need to forget 9/11, Iraq and Katarina. Posting to support Reagan and Nixon is something else. It's been said time and time again but Trump destroyed every liberal's future and past. It'll be fun when they rehabilitate Trump in 4-8 years when Dan Crenshaw or Joe Arpaio is elected president. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Not sure what the body count will be if he fucks the global economy with his trade wars and sanctions during the recovery from Covid19. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 3 hours ago, NotThePars said: It's been said time and time again but Trump destroyed every liberal's future and past. Not by anyone worth listening too. Quote It'll be fun when they rehabilitate Trump in 4-8 years Fantasising future schadenfreude. I guess its what you do when you have no real connection to reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 With six months to go the polls are looking good for Biden. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/17/politics/state-polls-2020-analysis/index.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Granny Danger said: With six months to go the polls are looking good for Biden. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/17/politics/state-polls-2020-analysis/index.html Providing Donald doesn't cancel the election. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 17 hours ago, welshbairn said: Not sure what the body count will be if he fucks the global economy with his trade wars and sanctions during the recovery from Covid19. Now there's a fact, Trump phoned into the live skins game last night on Sky and gave a 20 minute interview with one of the golf commentators, some of the shite he spouted about how great the US economy was before the pandemic, hinting it was all down to him, and then indicating that soon his economy will be Number 1 in the world again. He will definately block all trade with China. And feck the rest of us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 One of the more important battle in November will be for state legislatures. Many of the narrow Republican leaning states have democrat majorities but heavily gerrymandered boundaries. As these houses are flipped, the new administration can redraw boundaries so setting more Congress seats to Democrat and tying in the state house to its majority of voters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 The Neoliberal governor of California decides to cut health care in the middle of a pandemic and record unemployment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 The Neoliberal governor of California decides to cut health care in the middle of a pandemic and record unemployment. It's the American way, coming to a town near you sooner than you think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 A lot of that would be classed as discretionary care, which has been hammered here too. Think there are severe constraints on State borrowing, so if 2 million people lose health insurance because of Covid19, there will be consequences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arabdelic Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 On 17/05/2020 at 09:52, SandyCromarty said: The fact is that Trump is the only one among them who has not started or escalated a war, every President since Roosevelt was responsible for wars, even Carter gave 300, 000 USD to the Mujahadeen. It could be argued that it is preferential to have an idiot in The Whitehouse than one who squanders young men and womens lives in the false belief that is for the free world when in reality it is to be the top dog. Trump has pulled American forces out of conflict areas. As long as he thinks he's the worlds big shot business man pulling off daft deals then better that than people dying needlessly. We all know he's a posturing fool but it's better that than the likes of Nixon ordering the napalm bombing of Women and Kids. As Churchill said meeting Jaw to Jaw is better than War War, I know which I prefer. Trump isn't hawkish in the traditional neo con sense of starting wars (yet) . His America First agenda doesn't want to see Americans being killed. When it comes to non Americans he is a lot more sloppy and being such an impulsive, thin skinned narcissist I wouldn't be too confident a second term would pass war free. Trump revokes Obama rule on reporting drone strike deaths There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama's eight years in office, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a UK-based think tank. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47480207 The Secret Death Toll of America’s Drones President Trump is making it harder to know how many civilians the government kills by remote control https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/30/opinion/drones-civilian-casulaties-trump-obama.html Trump Administration Loosens Obama-Era Restrictions On Land Mine Use https://www.npr.org/2020/01/31/801632498/trump-administration-loosens-obama-era-restrictions-on-land-mine-use?t=1589823699602 The nuclear arms race is back … and ever more dangerous now Donald Trump has increased spending on America’s arsenal while ripping up cold war treaties. Russia and China are following suit https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/17/nuclear-arms-race-is-back-and-more-dangerous-than-before Trump is also guilty of economic terrorism with devastating sanctions against Iran and Venezuela. That is killing people. Withdrawing funding from WHO will also kill people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Off his tits on hydroxychloroquine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsOfficialMoaner Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 40 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said: Off his tits on hydroxychloroquine. Did you watch him? It seemed to me he was sticking his pal, Pompeo, right in it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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