The Official Former President Trump thread

[Zetterlund]

[Detournement]

The cost of a ventilator in the USA has risen from $25,000 to $45,000.

Incredible. In the UK all the companies involved in ventilator production are foregoing profit which is commendable but also the only acceptable outcome. American capital does not give a f**k. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

The cost of a ventilator in the USA has risen from $25,000 to $45,000.
Incredible. In the UK all the companies involved in ventilator production are foregoing profit which is commendable but also the only acceptable outcome. American capital does not give a f**k. 

This is not peculiar to the USA. The same middle men who feast off the arms and drugs trades are very likely already active in Europe and the Middle East - it is the nature of the beast.

It also cannot go unmentioned that rather than contacting established ventilator manufacturers the UK Government has reached out to Brexit cheerleaders like Dyson and Bamford, whose companies don't even make the things.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

This is not peculiar to the USA. The same middle men who feast off the arms and drugs trades are very likely already active in Europe and the Middle East - it is the nature of the beast.

It also cannot go unmentioned that rather than contacting established ventilator manufacturers the UK Government has reached out to Brexit cheerleaders like Dyson and Bamford, whose companies don't even make the things.

I wonder how many PPE kits and ventilators are going to poorer countries in this bidding war. Hopefully evil China are doing their bit.

Edited March 28, 2020 by welshbairn

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

This is not peculiar to the USA. The same middle men who feast off the arms and drugs trades are very likely already active in Europe and the Middle East - it is the nature of the beast.

It also cannot go unmentioned that rather than contacting established ventilator manufacturers the UK Government has reached out to Brexit cheerleaders like Dyson and Bamford, whose companies don't even make the things.

Almost every British engineering firm is involved including Babcock, BAE, Rolls Royce, Airbus UK, Siemens UK, Ford UK, a number of F1 teams and smaller cutting edge companies based around Oxford and Cambridge. Having read a bit about it this week I think they will produce the required numbers. High end engineering is one of the few things the UK hasn't sold off.

I think Dyson and Babock are producing new designs but the main consortium is scaling up two models already in production. 

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I wonder how many PPE kits and ventilators are going to poorer countries in this bidding war. Hopefully evil China are doing their bit.

Dyson says he is going to give away 5000 to poorer nations. China seems to sending aid all over the place. The Czech Republic tried to steal some PPE they were sending to Italy the other day. 

I also read that Poland requestioned a Norwegian owned sanitizer factory in Poland which supplying Norwegian hospitals. EU (or EEA in this case) solidarity is out the window. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Almost every British engineering firm is involved including Babcock, BAE, Rolls Royce, Airbus UK, Siemens UK, Ford UK, a number of F1 teams and smaller cutting edge companies based around Oxford and Cambridge. Having read a bit about it this week I think they will produce the required numbers. High end engineering is one of the few things the UK hasn't sold off.
I think Dyson and Babock are producing new designs but the main consortium is scaling up two models already in production. 

Point taken, but to be pedantic most of the companies you list are British-based as opposed to British-owned.

[renton]

10 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

13 hours ago, Detournement said:

Almost every British engineering firm is involved including Babcock, BAE, Rolls Royce, Airbus UK, Siemens UK, Ford UK, a number of F1 teams and smaller cutting edge companies based around Oxford and Cambridge. Having read a bit about it this week I think they will produce the required numbers. High end engineering is one of the few things the UK hasn't sold off.
I think Dyson and Babock are producing new designs but the main consortium is scaling up two models already in production. 

Point taken, but to be pedantic most of the companies you list are British-based as opposed to British-owned.

BAE, RR and Babcock are both British based and HQ'd. Though RR are the only one you'd really trust. BAE will probably deliver the ventilators 18 months late, three times over budget and then sell them to Saudi Arabia.

[Pet Jeden]

15 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

This is not peculiar to the USA. The same middle men who feast off the arms and drugs trades are very likely already active in Europe and the Middle East - it is the nature of the beast.

It also cannot go unmentioned that rather than contacting established ventilator manufacturers the UK Government has reached out to Brexit cheerleaders like Dyson and Bamford, whose companies don't even make the things.

None of the world's top 10 ventilator makers look like they are UK based and owned. In fairness, I don't think the government drew up a short-list of Brexity companies. They sent blueprints to 60 companies and invited them to step forward if they could help. Btw I also wouldn't draw the opposite conclusion to you - that Remainy companies are sitting in a huff with their arms folded, refusing to muck in. I suspect the names chosen for highlighting by the press, are down to lazy journalism. But it is nevertheless hard to believe that companies with no background in manufacturing these things can suddenly go from standstill to production of thousands of (reliable) units  in a few weeks. Here's hoping, though. Necessity is the mother of invention, and all that.

You do want the initiative to succeed, don't you O'Kelly? You wouldn't want it to fail, just so that you could score a petty Remainiac point, would you?

Edited March 29, 2020 by Pet Jeden

[Detournement]

Dyson went public before they were meant to. Typical of him but if he comes up with the required goods no one will care. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/ventilator-challenge-uk-to-start-production-in-covid-19-fight

This article reports on the 'main' consortium that the government expect to produce ventilators.

[welshbairn]

35 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

But it is nevertheless hard to believe that companies with no background in manufacturing these things can suddenly go from standstill to production of thousands of (reliable) units  in a few weeks. Here's hoping, though. Necessity is the mother of invention, and all that.

Hoping so too but I doubt they will be delivered before the peak and while they're still needed. Part of the problem, apart from setting up brand new production lines, is said to be sourcing the electronic control systems and other parts which can only be found quickly in China and there might not be enough, or time to produce what they need.

[Bairn in Exile]

16 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

This is not peculiar to the USA. The same middle men who feast off the arms and drugs trades are very likely already active in Europe and the Middle East - it is the nature of the beast.

It also cannot go unmentioned that rather than contacting established ventilator manufacturers the UK Government has reached out to Brexit cheerleaders like Dyson and Bamford, whose companies don't even make the things.

Dyson making ventilators? That sucks.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

2 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

None of the world's top 10 ventilator makers look like they are UK based and owned. In fairness, I don't think the government drew up a short-list of Brexity companies. They sent blueprints to 60 companies and invited them to step forward if they could help. Btw I also wouldn't draw the opposite conclusion to you - that Remainy companies are sitting in a huff with their arms folded, refusing to muck in. I suspect the names chosen for highlighting by the press, are down to lazy journalism. But it is nevertheless hard to believe that companies with no background in manufacturing these things can suddenly go from standstill to production of thousands of (reliable) units  in a few weeks. Here's hoping, though. Necessity is the mother of invention, and all that.

You do want the initiative to succeed, don't you O'Kelly? You wouldn't want it to fail, just so that you could score a petty Remainiac point, would you?

I won't dignify that last sentence with a response, and as for the horseshit about 'Remainy' companies - Jesus wept. 

But I will ask how it is that a competent Government can miss an opportunity to procure vitally-needed medical equipment due to a 'communications error'.  I think we may already know the answer to that one, and it has everything to do with political dogma and not communications.

[Detournement]

Why would they want to procure with the other 27 countries when the ventilators can be built here.

Creating domestic production lines is the only credible solution. The EU isn't about to magic up 200,000 ventilators. If they are built in Germany then Germany will take what they need first. 

[strichener]

28 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I won't dignify that last sentence with a response, and as for the horseshit about 'Remainy' companies - Jesus wept. 

But I will ask how it is that a competent Government can miss an opportunity to procure vitally-needed medical equipment due to a 'communications error'.  I think we may already know the answer to that one, and it has everything to do with political dogma and not communications.

Incorrectly states that the UK has reached out to Brexit cheerleaders and takes offence at someone referring to 'Remainy' companies.  Hypocritical and wrong in the space of a few posts.  Not content with this you then claim that it is political dogma that prevented the UK from joining an EU procurement initiative, you will of course be able to provide the evidence for this as opposed to the official explanantion.

I honestly don't care which companies build ventilators if they are necessary for saving lives.  Neither the political leanings of the owners nor the nationality of the companies matter a damn to the people that will need these machines to stay alive.

[Pet Jeden]

2 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I won't dignify that last sentence with a response, and as for the horseshit about 'Remainy' companies - Jesus wept. 

But I will ask how it is that a competent Government can miss an opportunity to procure vitally-needed medical equipment due to a 'communications error'.  I think we may already know the answer to that one, and it has everything to do with political dogma and not communications.

Who is claiming the government is competent? I think even a smooth-running administration (like, dare I say it, Tony Blair's) would struggle with this situation. But when a government - any government - immediately reverses a decision and admits a cock-up, I'm okay with that. To err is human...

But, O'Kelly, you avoided actually answering the question. For the avoidance of doubt, you do want the initiative to succeed?

[Detournement]

What benefit would come from the EU scheme? It isn't helping Italy, France  or Spain.

Obsessive Remainers are idiots.

[SandyCromarty]

I thought this was a Daft Donnie thread but all I'm reading is arguments over the UK's government failure/success in procuring ventilators.

Has the shine went off Donnie's shite.

Edited March 29, 2020 by SandyCromarty

[get_the_subbies_on]

He’s had an absolute ‘mare there. His interaction with the press is almost required viewing. It’s like listening to a 12 year old at times.

[BillyAnchor]

14 minutes ago, get_the_subbies_on said:

He’s had an absolute ‘mare there. His interaction with the press is almost required viewing. It’s like listening to a 12 year old at times.

You think he is maturing then?