banana Posted June 12, 2018 Author Share Posted June 12, 2018 Absolutely beautiful seethe, well done chaps! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 35 minutes ago, Detournement said: This is aimed at China. The USA flipped Ukraine to put pressure on Russia. They are trying to flip North Korea to put pressure on China. It's part of their encirclement tactic. This is nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 US foreign policy is all over the shop at the moment. You would expect the right wingers to be up in arms about this given their venomous opposition to Obama's attempts to normalize relations with Cuba and Iran. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 44 minutes ago, Detournement said: They are trying to flip North Korea to put pressure on China. It's part of their encirclement tactic. Drivel. The only faintly pro US regime with a border with China is Pakistan. And Pakistan\China is a long standing alliance that is in part to counterbalance India's power for both. You have to be an absolute puddle drinker to think that there is some kind of master plan by Trump to surround China. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Drivel. The only faintly pro US regime with a border with China is Pakistan. And Pakistan\China is a long standing alliance that is in part to counterbalance India's power for both. You have to be an absolute puddle drinker to think that there is some kind of master plan by Trump to surround China. That’s only if you believe in “Round Earth” geography 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 It's not Trump's plan. Obama launched the Asian pivot by trying to bind China's neighbours to the USA through trade and pressure China via a naval build up. Trump has scrapped the trade element of that plan but the US still plans to dominate the China sea and the wider Pacific. Guam, Okinawa and South Korea put pressure on the main population centres of China. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, yoda said: This is nonsense. It really, really is. Flipping is a meaningless buzzword straight out of the Louise Mensch phrasebook, and, ironically, the Infowars/Zero Hedge conspiracy fruit loop wing. Trump has no consistency in policy. He's no Nixon. This is aimed at getting Trump a peace prize. And it will come at the cost of making Kim look even more of a demi-god. From a North Korean point of view, and an American point of view, you have to think about how this is playing to North Korean (and South Korean) audiences. American prestige on the Korean peninsula has been utterly dismantled - which is why most of the criticism of this is coming from the Realist right. If there was such a thing as an "encirclement" project, there sure as heck isn't anymore. Edited June 12, 2018 by Savage Henry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Anyone could be fooled into thinking that withdrawing from trade agreements and threatening to pull troops out of local allies like South Korea and Japan was strengthening China's hand as they take over the South China sea and global trade. Trump must be genius at sleight of hand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: Anyone could be fooled into thinking that withdrawing from trade agreements and threatening to pull troops out of local allies like South Korea and Japan was strengthening China's hand as they take over the South China sea and global trade. Trump must be genius at sleight of hand. Well yes, indeed. It's almost as if unilaterally withdrawing from assured defence policies is likely to weaken the American hand. Still, condos on the Pyongyang riviera, anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Detournement said: It's not Trump's plan. Obama launched the Asian pivot by trying to bind China's neighbours to the USA through trade and pressure China via a naval build up. Trump has scrapped the trade element of that plan but the US still plans to dominate the China sea and the wider Pacific. Guam, Okinawa and South Korea put pressure on the main population centres of China. It's been fairly well established that (a) Trump abandoned the Obama 'pivot' almost immediately (the entire rebalance policy required economic cooperation, rather than competition), and (b) any hint of withdrawing troops from the Korean peninsula obviously plays right into Chinese hands. The US can expand their Pacific fleet all they want, the China Sea is effectively under Beijing's control now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Anyone could be fooled into thinking that withdrawing from trade agreements and threatening to pull troops out of local allies like South Korea and Japan was strengthening China's hand as they take over the South China sea and global trade. Trump must be genius at sleight of hand. They aren't going to pull out any troops. They've been in Japan for 73 years FFS. Trump and his faction are trying to destroy the current trade system which has allowed huge amounts of capital to amass outside US control and which will eventually threaten dollar hegemony. They have to do this before China gets strong enough to properly challenge them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Detournement said: It's not Trump's plan. Obama launched the Asian pivot by trying to bind China's neighbours to the USA through trade and pressure China via a naval build up. Trump has scrapped the trade element of that plan but the US still plans to dominate the China sea and the wider Pacific. Guam, Okinawa and South Korea put pressure on the main population centres of China. Aye that was Obama totally champ. Or was it Nixon actually hmmmm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmc dafc Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, dorlomin said: Drivel. The only faintly pro US regime with a border with China is Pakistan. And Pakistan\China is a long standing alliance that is in part to counterbalance India's power for both. You have to be an absolute puddle drinker to think that there is some kind of master plan by Trump to surround China. Vietnam are best mates with the US. Not sure if it's happened yet but an American carrier is doing a wee tour up and down the coast this year. Also there's been protests in Hanoi this week (a very rare event) about rich Chinese guys trying to buy land at Ha long bay. They despise the Chinese. Edited June 12, 2018 by kmc dafc -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Savage Henry said: It really, really is. Flipping is a meaningless buzzword straight out of the Louise Mensch phrasebook, and, ironically, the Infowars/Zero Hedge conspiracy fruit loop wing. Trump has no consistency in policy. He's no Nixon. This is aimed at getting Trump a peace prize. And it will come at the cost of making Kim look even more of a demi-god. From a North Korean point of view, and an American point of view, you have to think about how this is playing to North Korean (and South Korean) audiences. American prestige on the Korean peninsula has been utterly dismantled - which is why most of the criticism of this is coming from the Realist right. If there was such a thing as an "encirclement" project, there sure as heck isn't anymore. Tbf to trump I don't care about how he's perceived historically. He has been played like a fiddle and will agree to a deal very similar to the one he slated with Iran (this one will be amazing cause it's his). And he also has been the beneficiary of years of groundwork, but it will denuclearise the Korean peninsula, lift a lot of people in n Korea out of destitution, and lay the path to eventual reunification so it's a great thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chlamydia Kid Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 The “Bairns not Bombs” brigade don’t seem as keen on denuclearisation any more, strange as they were so vocal in their opposition before. Anyone would think they’d just hijacked Trident to further a sense of grievance and difference... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, The Chlamydia Kid said: The “Bairns not Bombs” brigade don’t seem as keen on denuclearisation any more, strange as they were so vocal in their opposition before. Anyone would think they’d just hijacked Trident to further a sense of grievance and difference... Lol. It's fkn beautiful how much the SNP get under the toons skins. You're permanently raging lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said: Tbf to trump I don't care about how he's perceived historically. He has been played like a fiddle and will agree to a deal very similar to the one he slated with Iran (this one will be amazing cause it's his). And he also has been the beneficiary of years of groundwork, but it will denuclearise the Korean peninsula, lift a lot of people in n Korea out of destitution, and lay the path to eventual reunification so it's a great thing. It's a four paragraph memo. The only thing that has changed from existing policy is that Kim is now legitimised. So next time he tests a missile, he can turn around and point to all the millions of TV viewers who love him. North Korea has been "denuclearising" for years. The west has been bailing North Korea out of famines for decades. Kim is now some kind of demi-god and can act with complete impunity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chlamydia Kid Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 Lol. It's fkn beautiful how much the SNP get under the toons skins. You're permanently raging lol. Not half as funny as those that hate trump trying to think up excuses of why not to give him credit when he does more in a year than Saint Obama could do in 8... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Savage Henry said: It's a four paragraph memo. The only thing that has changed from existing policy is that Kim is now legitimised. So next time he tests a missile, he can turn around and point to all the millions of TV viewers who love him. North Korea has been "denuclearising" for years. The west has been bailing North Korea out of famines for decades. Kim is now some kind of demi-god and can act with complete impunity. I totally disagree. This is the first time ever Kim has committed to full denuclearisation. It's actually really big. You contradict yourself a little by suggesting they've been denuclearising for decades.... next time they test another missile. They won't test any more imo. That's the whole point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted June 12, 2018 Share Posted June 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said: Not half as funny as those that hate trump trying to think up excuses of why not to give him credit when he does more in a year than Saint Obama could do in 8... Lol. I can't believe you linked even this to the SNP. They must be the first thing you think of in the morning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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