TxRover Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, MazzyStar said: It was clearly tongue in cheek (or at least I thought it was). Given your vehement statements about prosecuting Shrub, it seemed likely you were not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, TxRover said: Given your vehement statements about prosecuting Shrub, it seemed likely you were not. The invasion of Iraq was as a clear and obvious crime, so obviously he should be arrested. None of them will be indicted of course so none of this really matters, but I do think every US president is a fundamentally abhorrent human being. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Obama and Carter were not perfect but I wouldn't call either of them "fundamentally abhorrent human beings". I probably wouldn't call GWB that either though, admittedly, he was easily manipulated into doing abhorrent things, with Iraq being the most egregious example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said: Obama and Carter were not perfect but I wouldn't call either of them "fundamentally abhorrent human beings". I probably wouldn't call GWB that either though, admittedly, he was easily manipulated into doing abhorrent things, with Iraq being the most egregious example. Mass deregulation and funding the mujahideen for Carter and drone strikes in Afghanistan, Libya and timber sycamore for Obama are just a few bad things each did. The main point is that any person that is president is well aware of the crimes committed by the US in order to expand and maintain the empire and to be able to just go along with that will take someone that is a deeply flawed person. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Remember that Trump was a daft dodger, however that wasn't the worst thing he has done. Now that I mention it, there's always some weird c**t that will try and trip you up for mentioning it, so why fucking bother, according to them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 At least you’re not bothered. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: At least you’re not bothered. Coward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, MazzyStar said: Mass deregulation and funding the mujahideen for Carter and drone strikes in Afghanistan, Libya and timber sycamore for Obama are just a few bad things each did. The main point is that any person that is president is well aware of the crimes committed by the US in order to expand and maintain the empire and to be able to just go along with that will take someone that is a deeply flawed person. So, I’m interested, which deregulations are you suggesting were criminal? Telecommunications, Aviation, Motor Transport…? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: (Checks schedule and plans to stock up on popcorn) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 minute ago, TxRover said: So, I’m interested, which deregulations are you suggesting were criminal? Telecommunications, Aviation, Motor Transport…? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, TxRover said: (Checks schedule and plans to stock up on popcorn) He said last week he wanted to be perp-walked and cuffed, presumably for even more publicity, although I’m not sure why he thinks there won’t be enough. He also apparently told an aide he thinks if he got shot, he’d win the election, although that obviously hinges on the shooter not being a very good shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 This is a quick read, worth the time, on something which happened under Obama's time as president. It's astonishingly cruel. Some of the poorest people on the planet there in Haiti trying to get a tiny sliver extra compensation for their toil. USA blocks it because it'd mean profits for US companies like Levi's might slightly decrease. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/wikileaks-haiti-let-them-live-3-day/ For most of us, Obama seems very personable and he likely is. It's true, though, that he knew well how the organisation he was running, USA, was dishing out these cruel and unnecessary injustices yet he was unmoved. Maybe he was bothered by it, we don't know, but we can only judge on actions and these things - countless of them - still happened under his control even if not on his direct order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, FreedomFarter said: This is a quick read, worth the time, on something which happened under Obama's time as president. It's astonishingly cruel. Some of the poorest people on the planet there in Haiti trying to get a tiny sliver extra compensation for their toil. USA blocks it because it'd mean profits for US companies like Levi's might slightly decrease. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/wikileaks-haiti-let-them-live-3-day/ For most of us, Obama seems very personable and he likely is. It's true, though, that he knew well how the organisation he was running, USA, was dishing out these cruel and unnecessary injustices yet he was unmoved. Maybe he was bothered by it, we don't know, but we can only judge on actions and these things - countless of them - still happened under his control even if not on his direct order. The leaks seems to just be Embassy staffer reports describing what was going on to the State Department, there's no indication they provoked any reaction at all in Washington. There's certainly no evidence the reports ever reached the Oval Office. The Haitian publisher has a bit more detail. http://www.haiti-liberte.com/archives/volume4-47/Washington Backed Famous.asp P.S. Here's the main report from the Embassy, it seems relatively neutral to me. https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09PORTAUPRINCE553_a.html Edited March 31, 2023 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, welshbairn said: The leaks seems to just be Embassy staffer reports describing what was going on to the State Department, there's no indication they provoked any reaction at all in Washington. There's certainly no evidence the reports ever reached the Oval Office. The Haitian publisher has a bit more detail. http://www.haiti-liberte.com/archives/volume4-47/Washington Backed Famous.asp Is your point that Obama was unaware of those US efforts in Haiti? (I'm a bit slow on the old comprehension sometimes). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said: Is your point that Obama was unaware of those US efforts in Haiti? (I'm a bit slow on the old comprehension sometimes). I'm not clear that there were any efforts, the leak just seems to be an embassy staffer updating the State Department on the situation in Haiti, there's no mention of any response from the State Department. I added a link to the raw data from wikileaks above. I just think it's very unlikely that the cable would have reached the Whitehouse, given the vast amount of reports being produced every day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 hours ago, MazzyStar said: Oh, so when asked to explain, it’s too tiresome…or is it you can’t? 43 minutes ago, welshbairn said: I'm not clear that there were any efforts, the leak just seems to be an embassy staffer updating the State Department on the situation in Haiti, there's no mention of any response from the State Department. I added a link to the raw data from wikileaks above. I just think it's very unlikely that the cable would have reached the Whitehouse, given the vast amount of reports being produced every day. Entirely possible. The business called the United States of America is massive, and the chances of any given item making it that far up the food chain are small. Even more astonishing to some is the fact it can easily take over a year for a new President to actually get his “people” into positions of power, meanwhile the system runs on either the previous appointee in some cases or the civil service in others. I watched G.W.H.Bush, Clinton, G.W.Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden as the Chief Executive from a position in the Civil Service, and the actual changes in policy and action were minimal by the time they got down to our level. There was a swinging of the pendulum with regard to the relationship between the managers and line employees, from collaborative to combatant and back a couple of times, but the net effect was small…and I was only eight levels below the head of the Agency. With the State Department, the embassy staffer in question is almost certainly about seven to nine levels down too, if not more.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Apart from his involvement in Vietnam, LBJ, was closest the USA came to a left wing president. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.