Reorganisation of East Region Leagues

[imho]

6 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Correct. The bit I fail to understand, as I mentioned previously, is that Lochgelly Albert are already in a league with four other Fife clubs, and they are gunning for promotion into the region wide Premierleague, so why are they wanting re-organisation citing travel costs?  Outwith the Fife clubs there’s hardly much travelling involved in going over the bridge to Pumpherston, Livingston, Blackburn West Calder and Stoneyburn either. Lochore Welfare, if they are struggling with travel costs, why did they not request to be moved over to the South Division at the end of last season, that would have been the sensible move.

 

I mention those two clubs as one proposed re-organisation and the other seconded it, although as I said, it was withdrawn before the AGM.

 

I’m not aware of any club running buses to South Division games, and not all away games in the Super and Premier require a bus either. However as pointed out, travel costs should not be a consideration when discussing re-organisation anyway, you cut your financial cloth to suit but if you are already at the stage where you’re not paying players and still can’t pay travel expenses then you’re in the wrong grade of football I’m afraid. We can’t have the tail wagging the dog.

 

Easthouses Lily and Craigroyston are the perfect illustration that what we have now is a good set-up which attracts new members clubs, they probably won’t be the last to move over from the East of Scotland League, and with Harthill coming back next season as well, we have a strong set-up which works.

 

The Lowland League is improving in standard every season and they have clubs that are no bigger than District League clubs and involves a lot of travelling, yet some want to see us regress back into the old ways. We need to look forward, not backward.

I think there will be more clubs than you think would welcome a change back . Look forward to what, I seem to remember mesrs  Roxburgh and Brown allegedly making  changes  all these years ago that would benefit the whole of Scottish football, aye so it has. I was at a junior game recently where there was 20 people at it and an EOS game with only the officials of both clubs, aye thats progress. The Eos clubs that have joined our set up because the current EoS is crapp and just because you can increase the numbers , doesnt mean the product will be any better. Clubs going out of it and then allegedly coming back and for how long, I take my hat of to all the people who give up valuable time to try and keep the local junior clubs alive, but there is only so much people will do and if the Fife clubs want to test the water, then they should be assisted with some kind of consultation, why do you have to wait until the AGM, ask the clubs privately and then see if its as you think.  

[Burnie_man]

33 minutes ago, imho said:

I think there will be more clubs than you think would welcome a change back . Look forward to what, I seem to remember mesrs  Roxburgh and Brown allegedly making  changes  all these years ago that would benefit the whole of Scottish football, aye so it has. I was at a junior game recently where there was 20 people at it and an EOS game with only the officials of both clubs, aye thats progress. The Eos clubs that have joined our set up because the current EoS is crapp and just because you can increase the numbers , doesnt mean the product will be any better. Clubs going out of it and then allegedly coming back and for how long, I take my hat of to all the people who give up valuable time to try and keep the local junior clubs alive, but there is only so much people will do and if the Fife clubs want to test the water, then they should be assisted with some kind of consultation, why do you have to wait until the AGM, ask the clubs privately and then see if its as you think.  

Have no idea what you're on about with the Roxburgh and Brown thing. We should be looking forward to eventually being part of the Pyramid structure in some form, not winding the clocks back to 1950, it's going to happen eventually.

As bluebell1 has pointed out you live within your means. There are five Fife clubs in the South Division, with a further seven clubs in fairly easy reach across the Forth. If you can't handle the costs associated with that then you should not be playing Junior football. Harsh, but there you go. Lochore's circumstances I have a certain sympathy with, but they didn't ask to move to the South so not helping themselves (assuming they have an issue with travel).

Easthouses and Craigroyston saw their future in the East Region as opposed to the EoSFL and the Lowland League, that is a positive thing for our current set-up. It's never happened before, it's always been the other way (Preston and Ormiston). Kennoway stepped up from the Fife Amateurs and have done exceptionally well.

There's plenty of hard working committee out there who are quite happy with the way things are, they work hard so their clubs stay at, or aspire to, playing in the Super or Premier.

Re the consultation, if there was a demand for change from a lot of clubs at the Regional meetings, if there were debates raging on here every week about change, then fair enough consult, but there has been nothing and this all came pretty much out of the blue at the AGM.

[snowball]

As a new club (Craigroyston) to the juniors we obviously have not known any other set up. But I would say we definitely made the right choice to leave EOS which is dying a slow death.

I reckon travel is no more or even less than before which is why we were favour of status quo

[imho]

52 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Have no idea what you're on about with the Roxburgh and Brown thing. We should be looking forward to eventually being part of the Pyramid structure in some form, not winding the clocks back to 1950, it's going to happen eventually.

As bluebell1 has pointed out you live within your means. There are five Fife clubs in the South Division, with a further seven clubs in fairly easy reach across the Forth. If you can't handle the costs associated with that then you should not be playing Junior football. Harsh, but there you go. Lochore's circumstances I have a certain sympathy with, but they didn't ask to move to the South so not helping themselves (assuming they have an issue with travel).

Easthouses and Craigroyston saw their future in the East Region as opposed to the EoSFL and the Lowland League, that is a positive thing for our current set-up. It's never happened before, it's always been the other way (Preston and Ormiston). Kennoway stepped up from the Fife Amateurs and have done exceptionally well.

There's plenty of hard working committee out there who are quite happy with the way things are, they work hard so their clubs stay at, or aspire to, playing in the Super or Premier.

Re the consultation, if there was a demand for change from a lot of clubs at the Regional meetings, if there were debates raging on here every week about change, then fair enough consult, but there has been nothing and this all came pretty much out of the blue at the AGM.

EL and Craigie left the EoS cos it was total dross and no future in it. Dont tell me they would have left if all the teams that jumped to the LL were still in it. I say again, clubs are just surviving and if there are teams in Fife looking for some kind of dialogue on change,then why not listen to it. I think there would be a lot more than you think would have something to say. By the way Snowball, Craigie had some decent sides in the past , and in John Young they have a man who just lives for the club and you are doing all right for your first venture in to junior football. 

[Burnie_man]

47 minutes ago, imho said:

EL and Craigie left the EoS cos it was total dross and no future in it. Dont tell me they would have left if all the teams that jumped to the LL were still in it. I say again, clubs are just surviving and if there are teams in Fife looking for some kind of dialogue on change,then why not listen to it. I think there would be a lot more than you think would have something to say. By the way Snowball, Craigie had some decent sides in the past , and in John Young they have a man who just lives for the club and you are doing all right for your first venture in to junior football. 

I can't answer for those clubs, but they have passed up the opportunity of Lowland League and Scottish Cup entry (Easthouses were 1 point away from winning the EoSFL in their last season and entry to the Scottish Cup) to join our set-up, and the guy above from Craigroyston says they are happy with the way things are.

If some clubs are "just surviving" who are they and what difference will change make? they clearly have more issues than just travelling expenses and as I said, the South Division as it currently stands looks pretty good for Fife clubs if we're talking traveling costs. I know there are some clubs than hanker after a return of the old Fife Junior League, but that's just not going to happen, this isn't just about Fife and nor should it be.

There's 60 clubs and maybe only a small handful pushing for re-organisation? a waste of time.

[Burnie_man]

I'm hearing this is going to be discussed at a meeting next month, the committee have come up with "a plan", no idea what yet....

[Dreghorn]

The problem with 3 district leagues with only 1 promotion place in each league is that if 1 of the bigger teams in that league runs away with that league say by December there is absolutely nothing left for the remaining teams to play for that season.

i would love to get rid of plastic pitches.  It's not the same game.  However for some clubs they are here to stay.

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, Dreghorn said:

The problem with 3 district leagues with only 1 promotion place in each league is that if 1 of the bigger teams in that league runs away with that league say by December there is absolutely nothing left for the remaining teams to play for that season.

 

As I said on a previous post, that was the main reason why clubs wanted the current set-up in the first place. Three into one just doesn't go.  That, and more league games, less diddy cup games.

I've not seen their plan to see what is being proposed, but I can't see how it can improve on what we have.

[kleptomaniac]

I'm guessing it will be keep the super league and the rest go back to regional leagues with some sort of playoff for league runners up

[HibeeJibee]

Given the number of clubs, there can only be 4 or 5 divisions.


If it's 4 divisions then presumably "the plan" would be 1 regional division (not 2) with 3 districts below (not 2).

     16
16-16-16


If it's 5 divisions then presumably "the plan" would be reverting to the old format. Obviously this involves a drastic reduction in league games:

     12
     12
12-12-12


Downside is you only promote champions, and involve runners-up + 4th-bottom in playoff.

[bluebell1]

Or maybe they will just propose status quo.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said:

Given the number of clubs, there can only be 4 or 5 divisions.


If it's 4 divisions then presumably "the plan" would be 1 regional division (not 2) with 3 districts below (not 2).

     16
16-16-16


If it's 5 divisions then presumably "the plan" would be reverting to the old format. Obviously this involves a drastic reduction in league games:

     12
     12
12-12-12


Downside is you only promote champions, and involve runners-up + 4th-bottom in playoff.

 

If either of these two systems were brought in today, it would actually look like;

16

17-17-10

or

12

12

12 - 16 - 8

I'm sure we can spot the flaw.

 

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, bluebell1 said:

Or maybe they will just propose status quo.

Sadly, I have my doubts.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, bluebell1 said:

Or maybe they will just propose status quo.

What you're proposin' is Status Quo? We'll all be in Dire Straits at this rate. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

Just now, Mr Motivator said:

 

Looking for The Cure when something ain't broke is complete Madness

Only Simple Minds would go for the 12, 12 set up.

[HibeeJibee]

18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

If either of these two systems were brought in today, it would actually look like;

16
17-17-10

or

12
12
12 - 16 - 8

I'm sure we can spot the flaw.

I presume you're going by the old Tayside/Fife/Lothians boundaries. Presumably it's possible to return to 3 districts but, like the current 2 districts, have them North/Central/South and not with fixed county-style boundaries, tbf.

[Burnie_man]

56 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

I presume you're going by the old Tayside/Fife/Lothians boundaries. Presumably it's possible to return to 3 districts but, like the current 2 districts, have them North/Central/South and not with fixed county-style boundaries, tbf.

Yes, using the old boundaries, with Perthshire clubs in with the Fife clubs.  Neither works, and the "third way" is what we currently have, which does work.  EDIT - have amended to reflect the split of Perthshire clubs that existed prior to reconstruction.

 

[victor meldrew]

Surely likes of Blairgowrie and Kirrie etc would be classed as north teams??? 

 

Id keep it the same personally, it's maybe not great for all teams but never will be. 

[AlanCamelonfan]

Perthshire clubs played in the tayside league prior to super league

[Burnie_man]

17 minutes ago, victor meldrew said:

Surely likes of Blairgowrie and Kirrie etc would be classed as north teams??? 

 

 

Probably should be, and I think they were prior to re-organisation, but then you're back to drawing another artificial boundary.

Blairgowrie, Kirrie and Coupar Angus were classed as North teams, but Scone, Bankfoot and Luncarty were classed as Central. EDIT have amended above tables to reflect.