Even less of a title race with the return of Rangers

[topcat(The most tip top)]

18 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This is another one where it comes down to what you want from your own domestic league.

If your focus is on seeing the best quality of footballer possible (and by that I mean through the transfer market, not homegrown) then this idea of status, investment, tv exposure etc is probably quite important to achieving that goal.

If you are like me and accept that Scottish football will never be an elite level of football in relation to the global stage then this whole status argument is very much irrelevant when all i really want is a competitive league where it's the fans in attendance that matter and not the tv companies that see us as a virtual irrelevance.

Things like Status, investment and TV exposure are less important to developing home grown talent but they are quite important to retaining the best talent you've developed.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Greenlantern said:

 

How many years of our top clubs missing out on European qualification do you think it would take for some parity to be established in the league?

 

It would take more than that.

CL qualification for OF clubs is however, disastrous in this respect.

[Nightmare]

33 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It would take more than that.

CL qualification for OF clubs is however, disastrous in this respect.

Not just in this league, but everywhere.

Switzerland (Basel), Denmark (Copenhagen), Greece (Olympiacos), Croatia (Dinamo) and Ukraine (Shakhtar) are 5 countries where the leagues at a relatively similar level to our Premiership, and they're all completely dominated by one team, as a result of that team making the Champions League regularly. Then on a larger scale, if you look at the gulf in Spain with their big clubs, Bayern in Germany, Juventus in Italy, Benfica/Porto in Portugal - it's basically the same deal everywhere.

Interestingly, if you compare it with South America, different teams win the leagues every year for the most part, and there's generally a far greater range of teams playing in the Copa Libertadores on a yearly basis than we have in Europe. I don't know the exact details but it's a guarantee that the financial incentive for reaching the Libertadores is nowhere near the levels of the Champions League, and thus nobody can really monopolise a domestic league there.

The Champions League has killed the competitiveness at the top end of European league football.

[Dunfermline Don]

Using the NFL as an example, all the teams have the same wage cap to spend on players. So whilst certain teams with bigger fanbases that will sell more tickets, merchandise, etc will make more money than others, only a certain amount of that can be routed back into player contracts, and that number is the same for all teams. Meaning that generally teams will (or should) offer a player of a certain quality roughly the same sort of contract.
It's not just the financial implications either. If a player gets drafted to one of the 32 teams in the NFL he's going to be playing in the NFL regardless of who it is - there are no 2nd, 3rd or 4th tiers. In Scottish football, if a player is good enough to be playing in the top tier then they're just not going to play for Cowdenbeath or Montrose because it's a huge drop in standard.

Do the NFL not also have a collective marketing agreement. All goods sold with an NFL logo gets split among all the teams not just the team the sale was against.
Would this work here, eg all SPFL branded goods sold(OF included)

[Greenlantern]

It would take more than that.
CL qualification for OF clubs is however, disastrous in this respect.

What more would it take?

Tell me, would you agree to sacrifice and trade the last Scottish CL spot to the English, if they accept both Celtic and Rangers into to their league?

That way you'll retain parity and competitiveness for years to come, and the Glasgow clubs would no longer hold a monopoly.

[Monkey Tennis]

12 minutes ago, Greenlantern said:

 

What more would it take?

Tell me, would you agree to sacrifice and trade the last Scottish CL spot to the English, if they accept both Celtic and Rangers into to their league?

That way you'll retain parity and competitiveness for years to come, and the Glasgow clubs would no longer hold a monopoly.

 

Hell yeah.

I'd take thirty lashes to be rid of the pair of them.

[Monkey Tennis]

15 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said:

Do the NFL not also have a collective marketing agreement. All goods sold with an NFL logo gets split among all the teams not just the team the sale was against.
Would this work here, eg all SPFL branded goods sold(OF included)

The differences are massive.

Already, it's a continent wide, super league where every team or franchise or whatever, is huge.  That's what enables collective deals to happen.

Philosophically though, there's also a difference.  It's recognised there in the capitalist capital, that the sport, the competition, the industry, is at its most attractive and lucrative when balanced and genuinely competitive.  

It's this ideal we can learn from, as reflected by the draft system, rather than directly from that system itself.

[Greenlantern]

Hell yeah.
I'd take thirty lashes to be rid of the pair of them.

How remarkably self-deprecating of you.

[Northboy]

13 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Philosophically though, there's also a difference.  It's recognised there in the capitalist capital, that the sport, the competition, the industry, is at its most attractive and lucrative when balanced and genuinely competitive.  

It helps that US sports teams are all based in large cities which have the resources and population to enable this balance and competitiveness to work.

[CityDave]

3 minutes ago, Northboy said:

It helps that US sports teams are all based in large cities which have the resources and population to enable this balance and competitiveness to work.

It also helps when there is an education system that sees the value in sports as a career.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dons_1988]

It helps that US sports teams are all based in large cities which have the resources and population to enable this balance and competitiveness to work.

This though is based on the franchise system whereby a club will up sticks and move themselves to somewhere else if it's current location isn't working. Let's be honest that sort of system will never ever work here.

[Dons_1988]

It also helps when there is an education system that sees the value in sports as a career.
 
 
 
 
 
 

The American scholarship system is absolutely fantastic for young talent to pursue a sports career in conjunction with a proper education. Full of admiration for it.

[Monkey Tennis]

10 hours ago, Northboy said:

It helps that US sports teams are all based in large cities which have the resources and population to enable this balance and competitiveness to work.

Isn't that exactly what I said in the paragraph above the one you quoted?

[Northboy]

13 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

23 hours ago, Northboy said:

It helps that US sports teams are all based in large cities which have the resources and population to enable this balance and competitiveness to work.

Isn't that exactly what I said in the paragraph above the one you quoted?

Indeed it is - must read more carefully but at least we agree!

[Insaintee]

On 15/03/2017 at 18:40, Greenlantern said:

 

What more would it take?

Tell me, would you agree to sacrifice and trade the last Scottish CL spot to the English, if they accept both Celtic and Rangers into to their league?

That way you'll retain parity and competitiveness for years to come, and the Glasgow clubs would no longer hold a monopoly.

 

Yes please! 

 

ETA but only if the welsh give up theirs too. 

[Booker-T]

On 3/15/2017 at 16:39, Greenlantern said:

 

How many years of our top clubs missing out on European qualification do you think it would take for some parity to be established in the league?

 

hmmm, race to the bottom scenario will go like:

5 years of no team qualifying for anything - So Celtic will have to reduce the wage bill, but in doing so will still cash in on transfer fees which they can bank for long term security

Celtics worldwide and local fan based income will always be at a minimum 2 x better than any of the rest.

Celtic picking at the bones of other clubs every January for the ones that didn't make it to England to an even greater extent than they had been doing.

there wont be a 20+ point gap, but any club that is close in January will lose at least one of their best players (unless it's sevco)

 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

45 minutes ago, Booker-T said:

hmmm, race to the bottom scenario will go like:

5 years of no team qualifying for anything - So Celtic will have to reduce the wage bill, but in doing so will still cash in on transfer fees which they can bank for long term security

Celtics worldwide and local fan based income will always be at a minimum 2 x better than any of the rest.

Celtic picking at the bones of other clubs every January for the ones that didn't make it to England to an even greater extent than they had been doing.

there wont be a 20+ point gap, but any club that is close in January will lose at least one of their best players (unless it's sevco)

 

 

An infinitely better scenario than anything we've had since before I left school.

Just 2 x the budget of the others?   I'd bite your hand off for that.  Bring it on I say.

[Booker-T]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

An infinitely better scenario than anything we've had since before I left school.

Just 2 x the budget of the others?   I'd bite your hand off for that.  Bring it on I say.

not budget, no.

the first of the others would be Sevco FC

we'll still have better tv and transfer income 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Booker-T said:

not budget, no.

the first of the others would be Sevco FC

we'll still have better tv and transfer income 

Why would the fan based income be twice that of Rangers?

[Booker-T]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Why would the fan based income be twice that of Rangers?

worldwide fan based income

when the old Rangers still existed, Celtic were regular top 10 worldwide for shirt sales and haven't dropped far off that since despite the emergence of lots of fashionable new money clubs like psg and man city emerging. Rangers never got near that level despite a 1990s near monopoly on Scottish trophies.

Sevco have considerably less supporters than the old Rangers (supporters, not fans) and added to that their fondness for boycotting official merch....

in the 2000s Rangers tried to compete financially with a Celtic which had engaged it worldwide marketing and money making potential, do you remember how that finished?