Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Jdog]

50 Tory's met last night to decide how to oust May... probably couldn't decide who wouldn't front it!

[Granny Danger]

5 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

I would too. It's not that I dislike the man, but I do believe he has been fundamentally dishonest regarding Brexit.

I will say though, Corbyn will never be PM, and that is because while his base is strong, his base is not large enough to win on it's own. It needs middle of the road politics. Look at the last Labour PM's. Blair who moved the party to the right, and Callaghan who remained true to his values and was removed because of the winter of discontent.

When people see Corbyn they see Callaghan, not Blair, and that frightens them. I wish it didn't, I'd love for us to be a centre left country but the English dominate politics and they don't want that.

The recent polls suggest you’re wrong.

The Tories possibly the biggest party but no majority even with the DUP and Lib Dem’s.  Labour might even squeeze May out but again not an overall majority.

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

I'm not sure if you are insulting me or yourself with that answer. You seem to suggest that everyone who dislikes Corbyn's is being blinded by the media. It's not the first time you've done it and it's equally untrue now as it was before. As someone who supports independence I am only too well aware of the way the media spins things and doesn't take everything as gospel.

Stop lying, the Scottish Labour Party's own figures is that it has just over 20,000 members. Not random affiliates, not UK wide, the Scottish Labour Party alone. If you talk about affiliated it raises it to roughly just over 30,000. Those figures date from late 2017. Are you claiming that 230,000 members joined Scottish Labour between then and now?

What's more evident is number of Scottish seats that Labour hold both at Holyrood and Westminster. You are the third party behind the Conservatives at Holyrood. How the f**k did that happen? It happened because there are not enough people who trust Labour so the only other option than SNP is Conservatives.

Even the thickest on here, and I'm not yet willing to class you with the likes of Bennett, would surmise that I was referring to the Labour Party. 

Unless otherwise stated, I would have thought any rational person would realise that discussion on here refers to parties nationally, i.e. UK-wide. What with Brexit being an issue for the UK Parliament, and all that. 

Once we get rid of the Tories, we can see the debate on Independence opening up again, with maybe a bit more rational argument. It seems a wee bit short-sighted to continually abuse the Party which offers the only possibility of attaining that. 

What is notable about Scottish membership is that, while it mirrored the collapse in membership seen in the rest of the country during the failed project years, it hasn't seen a similar recovery in recent years. This, I would suggest, is because you're lucky enough to have had a party in Scotland which at least professes to be progressive in outlook. FWIW, I returned to Labour after almost thirty years in 2015 - had I still been living in Scotland I'd have become a member of the SNP when I packed in my Labour card in 96. I'm not sure I still would be, but I would probably be back in the Labour fold anyway.

[Buddist Monk]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

The recent polls suggest you’re wrong.

If elections were won by polls then our governments would have been different.

 

[Buddist Monk]

1 minute ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Even the thickest on here, and I'm not yet willing to class you with the likes of Bennett, would surmise that I was referring to the Labour Party.

And yet you compared them to the SNP, who do not operate outside Scotland, and you replied to my comment that was about Scottish politics.

You are dancing on a pin here and as I say I'm not sure if it's insulting the rest of us or insulting yourself. Perhaps a bit of both.

I accept that if you are outwith Scotland then Labour is pretty much the only gig in town.

I should also congratulate you on not trotting out the same line about us all being blinded by the media.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

One of the Gammon-in-Chiefs steps in with his 'Brexit bonus'.....getting rid of all the good stuff and replacing it with cheap shit.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1016552/brexit-news-tim-martin-wetherspoon-eu-beers-scrapped

[WhiteRoseKillie]

3 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

And yet you compared them to the SNP, who do not operate outside Scotland, and you replied to my comment that was about Scottish politics.

You are dancing on a pin here and as I say I'm not sure if it's insulting the rest of us or insulting yourself. Perhaps a bit of both.

I accept that if you are outwith Scotland then Labour is pretty much the only gig in town.

I should also congratulate you on not trotting out the same line about us all being blinded by the media.

I didn't compare them to the SNP - I pointed out that on a UK-wide basis, the party has more members than the rest of the major players at Westminster, which is where the whole Brexit process is playing out. 

Just out of interest, although the SNP obviously does not operate in England, I have a couple of mates who are members - living in Yorkshire. I'm sure the Grauniad ran a story a couple of years back about a Branch in London, with membership in the high hundreds. 

Yep, here it is.

I also accept that, in Scotland, the SNP seems to be the only gig in town. Some of the reason for that is the legacy of the likes of Murphy, Deputy Dug and that posturing old cúnt Broon. Labour in Scotland has been self-harming for years, but now are slowly recovering.

[RiG]

 

[Granny Danger]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/12/defra-readiness-for-no-deal-brexit-pilloried-by-whitehall-auditors-michael-gove-nao

Michael Gove’s department nowhere near close to being organised for Brexit.  When you read the details you can see the enormity of the task; it’s going to be a clusterfuck, and that’s just one government department.

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 minutes ago, RiG said:

 

Shouldn't have fucking voted for it then, should they? Agricultural cúnts.

(Posted from a true-blue, rural, haven't-made-a-crowbar-big-enough-to-shift-the-cúnt constituency in E Yorks)

[Blootoon87]

 

That's an absolute disgrace. I can't get over the sheer brass neck of them.

[Cerberus]

6 minutes ago, RiG said:

 

 

There will be a lot of rural Scottish Gammons who will agree.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

7 minutes ago, RiG said:

 

Hats off to philyerboots. That's his best effort yet.

[Buddist Monk]

3 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

I didn't compare them to the SNP.

...

45 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

More than the Tories, SNP, LibDems and Plaid can muster between them. 

I would suggest that is a comparison.

5 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Just out of interest, although the SNP obviously does not operate in England, I have a couple of mates who are members - living in Yorkshire. I'm sure the Grauniad ran a story a couple of years back about a Branch in London, with membership in the high hundreds.

Not entirely sure what that is meant to mean in the context of our discussion. I believe there was an SNP office in the US (more for publicity than anything else, to be fair). I'm not sure how many seats it won in the Congress/Senate though.

5 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

I also accept that, in Scotland, the SNP seems to be the only gig in town. Some of the reason for that is the legacy of the likes of Murphy, Deputy Dug and that posturing old cúnt Broon. Labour in Scotland has been self-harming for years, but now are slowly recovering.

Well here is something we can both agree on. I think slowly recovering also comes under "even a dead cat bounces when dropped". Although I feel their support for the union despite the majority of the membership in Scotland not doing so, is also a reason for that decline.

If I can be at least a little conciliatory here, living down in England does create a situation where the populace are blinded by the media. I understand why it is a bit of a "go to" because there is some merit in it, but it's just not the same situation up here. The fact Corbyn rarely comes up here (although, he was up recently to be fair) is testament to the problems he has down South combined by the weak support he has up here.

[Buddist Monk]

8 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

 

There will be a lot of rural Scottish Gammons who will agree.

Oh, Jesus won't there. Same with the fishermen. That whole North East pretty much swung towards conservatives both at MSP and MP level. The blind hatred of the EU is a huge issue up there. I have friends and lived there for a while. You can speak to farmers and fishermen who literally parrot UKIP lines with absolutely no shame.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Buddist Monk

[WhiteRoseKillie]

25 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

...

I would suggest that is a comparison.

Not entirely sure what that is meant to mean in the context of our discussion. I believe there was an SNP office in the US (more for publicity than anything else, to be fair). I'm not sure how many seats it won in the Congress/Senate though.

Well here is something we can both agree on. I think slowly recovering also comes under "even a dead cat bounces when dropped". Although I feel their support for the union despite the majority of the membership in Scotland not doing so, is also a reason for that decline.

If I can be at least a little conciliatory here, living down in England does create a situation where the populace are blinded by the media. I understand why it is a bit of a "go to" because there is some merit in it, but it's just not the same situation up here. The fact Corbyn rarely comes up here (although, he was up recently to be fair) is testament to the problems he has down South combined by the weak support he has up here.

In fairness to Corbyn, he can't be everywhere at once (he's only been in my area half-a-dozen times in the last couple of years) - I would suggest that if Scottish Labour want to keep their devolved status, they should be out there a wee bit more themselves.  It'as not all about the Leader, either - I have regular contact with our Shadow Minister (Richard Burgon), who is reasonably local, and my Branch Chairman is on nodding terms with Ed Milliband in Donny.  Ian Lavery has helped us sink a few pints over the years, and John McDonnell is a good friend of my Union, who I've had a couple of good chinwags with. Dennis Skinner won himself some more points with me when he referred to me as "young man" at last year's Miners' gala, and this year I even scored a cuddle from Emily Thornberry. Two other lovely women are Angela Rayner and Frances O'Grady (although Ms O'grady can get a bit shrill when riled!)

The above is not to paint myself as some kind of uber-activist - just to point out that the current Party is unrecognisable when compared to the stage-managed, image is everything nonsense peddled by Blair and his crew. They actually are a true people's Party, and we (members) love them for it. This is why we're not too happy about Umuna referring to us as "dogs" and "trash".

 How close to any senior Tory would you get before you were tackled by some massive security bod? Why are they so scared at encountering the public they claim to serve?

Edited September 12, 2018 by WhiteRoseKillie
Embarrassing phraseology

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

They truly are a people's Party

Bit Blairite mate..

[WhiteRoseKillie]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Bit Blairite mate..

Consider that edited. Christ, the embarrassment!

[Buddist Monk]

6 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

The above is not to paint myself as some kind of uber-activist - just to point out that the current Party is unrecognisable when compared to the stage-managed, image is everything nonsense peddled by Blair and his crew. They truly are a people's Party, and we (members) love them for it. This is why we're not too happy about Umuna referring to us as "dogs" and "trash".

 How close to any senior Tory would you get before you were tackled by some massive security bod? Why are they so scared at encountering the public they claim to serve?

If I am going to be honest here, that amount of pointless name dropping didn't paint you as an uber-activist it painted you as a crazy groupie. I don't mean to be harsh, but the points you raise did not need you to read off your CV and I was physically cringing reading that. I really don't want to sound either derisory or inflammatory but that was my genuine response. It might impress others, but certainly not me.

One final point though, that while I agree the bunfight between the PLP/NEC/MPs was unsavoury, I trust Chucka Umuna considerably more than Corbyn, and that is because Corbyn deceived the electorate in regard to Brexit. You might not see it like that, but an awful lot of people do.

[NotThePars]

Oh so you met Corbyn? That don’t impress me much.