101 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 21 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: And for some balance, a piece in Moneyweek saying that our lack pf growth isn't down to Brexit at all. Make your own mind up. Having record high vacancies probably isn't great for sustainable growth. Imposing economic sanctions on your own exports also isn't helpful. However, we still have uncontrolled imports I'd expect once we complete Brexit than we will be in a worse state of affairs. That's if we ever manage to complete it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Suspect Device said: Britain the only G7 economy forecast to shrink in 2023 | Economic growth (GDP) | The Guardian And for some balance, a piece in Moneyweek saying that our lack pf growth isn't down to Brexit at all. Make your own mind up. Thanks for that. Far too early to blame Brexit for all our problems. Personally, I think it will prove to be a good move but that’s probably my bias showing through. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Thanks for that. Far too early to blame Brexit for all our problems. Personally, I think it will prove to be a good move but that’s probably my bias showing through. I don't see much good news related to brexit but if I do I post it. I like to see both sides but I'm more convinced as timegoes on that there is very little upside. I'm sure some folk are benefitting from it but not the majority. And predicted to get worse. Of course all predictions should be taken with a pinch of salt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Bootle looked like he's inching closer to accepting that Brexit was a terrible mistake in the Telegraph in December. Quote Admittedly, if you look at GDP per capita rather than overall GDP, then our relative performance is not quite so good. But it is still pretty reasonable. Even so, this leaves open the possibility that Brexit has indeed had a significant negative effect. It is likely, for instance, that business investment is below where it would have been. But we really cannot be sure. It is not an open and shut case. What we can be sure of, though, is that there have been hardly any economic benefits from Brexit. This isn’t very surprising. Most economists who supported Brexit, including yours truly, believed that in the first few years there would be net losses as there would be some reduction in trade with the EU as a result of the introduction of various frictions following our exit from the Single Market. Meanwhile, the potential positives would take time to develop. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Suspect Device said: Britain the only G7 economy forecast to shrink in 2023 | Economic growth (GDP) | The Guardian And for some balance, a piece in Moneyweek saying that our lack pf growth isn't down to Brexit at all. Make your own mind up. The "Centre for European Reform" is a devoutly pro European think tank. The CEBR is quoted as an authoritative source. I've had a wee look at the CEBR and it appears to be a couple of snake oil salespeople and a handful of interns (sorry-senior economists). They seem to have a nice line in providing clickbait for the Telegraph and shilling for India. I doubt that they'd be described a devoutly pro brexit because devoutness pays poorly. Just in case anyone was wondering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) Brexit was never about economics for leave campaigners, other than the City boys into making a quick profit from betting against the pound and longer term deregulation of markets and workers' rights. For nearly everyone else it was pure ideology from the right, clamping down on immigration from the EU and escaping the generally Social Democratic centrist consensus of the EU institutional mindset, and as Boris famously said, "Fuck business!" The economic effects have been masked by Covid and Ukraine, it will likely be difficult to unravel them for a while yet, but I haven't seen any evidence of great new trading relationships, that we wouldn't have had by staying in the EU, to compensate for the new frictions on trade and labour movement with the EU. We've swapped free trade and movement with the biggest trading bloc on the planet that Thatcher fought so hard for, for petty bureaucratic red tape and curtailment of individual freedoms, and zero discernible gain. Edited January 31, 2023 by welshbairn 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: Brexit was never about economics for leave campaigners, other than the City boys into making a quick profit from betting against the pound and longer term deregulation of markets and workers' rights. For nearly everyone else it was pure ideology from the right, clamping down on immigration from the EU and escaping the generally Social Democratic centrist consensus of the EU institutional mindset, and as Boris famously said, "Fuck business!" The economic effects have been masked by Covid and Ukraine, it will likely be difficult to unravel them for a while yet, but I haven't seen any evidence of great new trading relationships, that we wouldn't have had by staying in the EU, to compensate for the new frictions on trade and labour movement with the EU. We've swapped free trade and movement with the biggest trading bloc on the planet that Thatcher fought so hard for, for petty bureaucratic red tape and curtailment of individual freedoms, and zero discernible gain. We should be able to get the meat content in our sausages down to 40% again and still call them sausages without the Germans interfering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Quote “The only way that the Brexit put forward by Boris Johnson was going to work was if there was a complete deregulation of the UK and we moved to a sort of Liz Truss utopia of a Singapore state and that was just never going to happen,” Hands, a former donor to the Conservative party, told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. “The British population was never going to accept a state in which the NHS would be demolished, where free education would be severely limited, where regulation with regard to employment would be thrown apart. It was just complete and total absolute lies.” https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/31/brexit-lies-tory-billionaire-guy-hands-uk-eu-economy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I see high energy prices and rising interest rates being cited as reasons for this, but every country is dealing with these. And yes, it is impacting them as well - look at Germany for example, which is also struggling but not expected to shrink. So, that doesn't explain it. Brexit is of course a factor really only affecting one country. And that country is the one expected to shrink... Brexit isn't the only factor impacting the UK, much as the perma-rattled #fbpe goons like to pretend it is, but it is a factor and denying this is not going to do anyone any favours. Exports to Europe are down and imports from Europe are also down, which is very surprising in an import-dependent economy. I've looked through the trade stats and I can't see this being made up from elsewhere. There also seems to be a labour shortage too, albeit this is one where I don't think a lot of employers are helping themselves, through their failure to accept their cheap labour supply is gone and failure to react to that. At any rate, it isn't good for growing an economy and neither are the other two things I've mentioned. We have also not yet fully 'Got Brexit Done' (!), as we have not yet implemented additional border controls on a large majority of EU foodstuffs imported into the UK. This will almost certainly result in substantial disruption. The Labour Party's plan to enter an SPS agreement with the EU will avoid further negative impacts in this area, but the present government isn't interested in that, lest it jeopardise a fantasyland trade deal with the US. The only good thing in the sphere in the meantime is that the can keeps being kicked down the road by a government fearful of the negative impact it will have and which is utterly afraid to do things. However, they will face a choice: do it, or leave it to the next lot. It might only be what the next lot might do - i.e. betray Brexit (in their eyes) - that prompts them to do something. We can argue the extent to which Brexit is a factor, but it is having an impact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 A financial adviser who voted for Brexit either has terrible financial judgement and is dreadful at their job, or a racist. Which one of these does this fud want to be? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, coprolite said: We should be able to get the meat content in our sausages down to 40% again and still call them sausages without the Germans interfering. Are you telling me the pink sludge in Richmonds Irish sausages is any percentage of meat? ETA. I'd still eat them, mind you. Edited January 31, 2023 by Suspect Device 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: Are you telling me the pink sludge in Richmonds Irish sausages is any percentage of meat? ETA. I'd still eat them, mind you. Arseholes and hooves count as meat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, coprolite said: Arseholes and hooves count as meat. Delicious arseholes and hooves. Mmmmmm. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: Are you telling me the pink sludge in Richmonds Irish sausages is any percentage of meat? ETA. I'd still eat them, mind you. Ah yes... fond memories of the "Emulsified High-Fat Offal Tube' episode of Yes Minister! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, coprolite said: Arseholes and hooves count as meat. There's no way I'm eating Jacob Rees-Mogg. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkieRR Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Agree with the above. Richmond sausages are theoretically an offence to cuisine but by jings they're great 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Courtesy of the honourable member for the 19th century's twitter. A list of Brexit 'benefits'. Content warning. May contain bullshit. https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/gains-from-brexit-on-the-3rd-anniversary/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Jag Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Suspect Device said: Courtesy of the honourable member for the 19th century's twitter. A list of Brexit 'benefits'. Content warning. May contain bullshit. https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/gains-from-brexit-on-the-3rd-anniversary/ The bullshit and shit from all other species ends up untreated and pumped into the sea, in order that it reappears on a beach. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 I like how half them say "while we already could have done this under EU rules..." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Brexit decimates research funding within Oxbridge. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/feb/04/brexit-causes-collapse-in-european-research-funding-for-oxbridge-universities "The latest statistics from the European Commission reveal that Cambridge University, which netted €483m (£433m) over the seven years of the last European research funding programme, Horizon 2020, has not received any funding in the first two years of the new Horizon Europe programme. Meanwhile, Oxford, which won €523m from the earlier programme, has only been awarded €2m to date from Horizon Europe." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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