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Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.


John Lambies Doos

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1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit.

Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well.

Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe.

The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry.

People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade.

GD- you’ll be proved right.

 

Incorrect again.

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1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit.

Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well.

Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe.

The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry.

People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade.

GD- you’ll be proved right.

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1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well.

How many years is "a few more years"? Because initially it was "we will have the upper hand" and "we will see the benefits straight away" then it became "we might not see the benefits for around 50 years" (Rees-Mogg), and people who have had this shotshow foisted on them would rather see some of these so-called benefits before we shuffle off this mortal coil

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Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe.

 

This sort of thing has been said about the EU for my entire lifetime and guess what, the EU is still standing strong. Italy has been a political basket case for decades but is still standing. And it may have escaped your attention but the UK is the worst performing of the G8 apart from Russia. Even taking energy into account, it won't have escaped your attention that several EU countries have done a lot more to help domestic consumers than Blighty...

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The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry.

We were never in Schengen but we never had to have our passports stamped. We were never in Schengen but we were in the single market so goods vehicles could have cursory glances rather than detailed inspections. You may have not had any issues entering the EU but it's no help to those stuck in the queues caused by those checks that we imposed on ourselves.

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People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade.

Again, you may be right that some holidaymakers might avoid France but that doesn't help the hauliers and exporters who rely on the Dover-Calais crossing. You also are assuming that all the leisure traffic is staying in France and not heading elsewhere?

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GD- you’ll be proved right

We'll see. I doubt it, tbh.

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1 hour ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

How many years is "a few more years"? Because initially it was "we will have the upper hand" and "we will see the benefits straight away" then it became "we might not see the benefits for around 50 years" (Rees-Mogg), and people who have had this shotshow foisted on them would rather see some of these so-called benefits before we shuffle off this mortal coil

This sort of thing has been said about the EU for my entire lifetime and guess what, the EU is still standing strong. Italy has been a political basket case for decades but is still standing. And it may have escaped your attention but the UK is the worst performing of the G8 apart from Russia. Even taking energy into account, it won't have escaped your attention that several EU countries have done a lot more to help domestic consumers than Blighty...

We were never in Schengen but we never had to have our passports stamped. We were never in Schengen but we were in the single market so goods vehicles could have cursory glances rather than detailed inspections. You may have not had any issues entering the EU but it's no help to those stuck in the queues caused by those checks that we imposed on ourselves.

Again, you may be right that some holidaymakers might avoid France but that doesn't help the hauliers and exporters who rely on the Dover-Calais crossing. You also are assuming that all the leisure traffic is staying in France and not heading elsewhere?

We'll see. I doubt it, tbh.

Decent response.

How long ? Who knows but the OECD forecasts the UK to have higher growth than the Eurozone in 2022.

A lot of those statistics are meaningless as it depends on the point of time they’re taken.

The big plus for the UK is having its own currency which avoids the huge disparity, as in the eurozone, between the Northern countries such as Germany and Holland and the southern ones such as Spain, Portugal and Greece.

As you say, we’ll see.

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54 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Decent response.

How long ? Who knows but the OECD forecasts the UK to have higher growth than the Eurozone in 2022.

A lot of those statistics are meaningless as it depends on the point of time they’re taken.

The big plus for the UK is having its own currency which avoids the huge disparity, as in the eurozone, between the Northern countries such as Germany and Holland and the southern ones such as Spain, Portugal and Greece.

As you say, we’ll see.

I think we're already seeing.

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2 hours ago, Michael W said:

The Independent is I think wrong about the need for biometric data to be collected. I recall that UK passport holders will be able to use the eGates again once it's in place, which would cause an issue trying to obtain the fingerprints etc. I checked the guidance and it seems to agree. 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-form-application

Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding, but I think the visa waiver through ETIAS is the permission to travel there and it's valid for three years. Can't see anything saying it needs to be done every time before travelling. Still not ideal, right enough. I believe the UK is working on a similar system also for third country

OK, this wasn't right RE the biometrics. Hands up and apologies to The Independent. 

ETIAS doesn't require any biometric data as I stated, but the new Entry/Exit System (EES) does. I wasn't aware of EES as well. A little knowledge is dangerous. 

The link here has a memo with more information about ETIAS, which is quite useful

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/smart-borders/european-travel-information-authorisation-system_en

The below give more information on EES. It is essentially aligned closely to ETIAS, but does the donkey work of measuring entry/exit and, unlike at present, will strongly enforce the 90 day limit in 180 days. Not that I'd recommend it, but if you breach that right now it's unlikely you'll get caught if the 90 days is made up of multiple entries and exits, as the border guard would need to count all the stamps and calculate the dates. 

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-to-launch-biometric-entry-exit-system-in-a-few-months/

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/entry-exit-system-ees/

Not clear to me how this is going to work in practice as I can't find any guidance, but the relevant Regulation states that four finger prints should be registered in EES "if physically possible" and that authorities in each Member State can decide if a facial image or fingerprints are to be used as the identifier (recital 21). I imagine facial images are easier for the eGates, although perhaps they'll retrofit the fingerprint scanners. Most likely, it will be some combination of both depending on the place of arrival.  

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2017/2226/oj

So, yeah, more of a pain than I thought it was going to be, unfortunately. We can upgrade 'not ideal' to 'pretty irritating'. 

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4 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit.

Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well.

Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe.

The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry.

People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade.

GD- you’ll be proved right.

As was pointed out to you previously the £ has lost almost an identical % amount v the $ as the € over the last 12 months. There is no greater weakness in the Eurozone economy than the UK when compared to the US over the last year.

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/25/lorries-dover-boris-johnson-tory-leadership-brexit

"The Brexit slogan “Take back control” was always a lie. Boris Johnson, in a long boast about his so-called achievements in the Sunday Express yesterday, wrote that he “took back control of our borders”. Perhaps he should have visited the M20 in Dover, where thousands of immobile lorries are stacked up, and repeated this claim to their drivers. Under the EU, Britain’s borders were an issue negotiated with its neighbours. Under Brexit, the border at Dover is now controlled by France – and there is not a thing Britain can do about it. When we left the EU we lost all control."

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5 hours ago, Michael W said:

Not clear to me how this is going to work in practice as I can't find any guidance, but the relevant Regulation states that four finger prints should be registered in EES "if physically possible" and that authorities in each Member State can decide if a facial image or fingerprints are to be used as the identifier (recital 21). I imagine facial images are easier for the eGates, although perhaps they'll retrofit the fingerprint scanners. Most likely, it will be some combination of both depending on the place of arrival.  

 

I did think they were taking it too far when I read that as 'rectal'

 

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11 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit.

Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well.

Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe.

The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry.

People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade.

GD- you’ll be proved right.

EU Gdp isn't shrinking.

France's quarter on quarter is - ve but +ve for the year. The Euro area is growing (more slowly than UK but this is still bounceback so not too exciting). 

The Scandinavians shrunk last quarter, but Norway by twice as much as the others.... 

The euro has tanked by 13% compared to the Us$ in a year, compared to the mighty Sterling which has only lost a mere 12%. Not that that shows anything meaningful anyway. 

Obviously our politics looks much healthier than Italy's which tends to be dominated by the super rich and populist morons. 

The UK doing "fairly well" in a few years sounds great. 

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7 hours ago, Soapy FFC said:

I did think they were taking it too far when I read that as 'rectal'

 

Reassuring in a way to know they are not taking any shit. 

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Daniel Lambert, who supplies M&S, Waitrose and 300 independent retailers, to set up in France after £150,000 hole in revenue.

A British wine wholesaler who last year criticised Brexit as the biggest threat to his business in 30 years has decided to leave the UK after post-Brexit paperwork made a £150,000 hole in revenue.

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10 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Daniel Lambert, who supplies M&S, Waitrose and 300 independent retailers, to set up in France after £150,000 hole in revenue.

A British wine wholesaler who last year criticised Brexit as the biggest threat to his business in 30 years has decided to leave the UK after post-Brexit paperwork made a £150,000 hole in revenue.

Those Brexit dividends continue to pay off.

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11 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Those Brexit dividends continue to pay off.

My family business is now buying more goods from UK suppliers rather than from Belgium or France.

It works both ways,

Isolated examples are worse than useless.

You need to look at overall trade figures over a decent length of time

 

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1 minute ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

My family business is now buying more goods from UK suppliers rather than from Belgium or France.

It works both ways,

Isolated examples are worse than useless.

You need to look at overall trade figures over a decent length of time

 

The example you've just given is of a reduction in cross border trade. 

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29 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Daniel Lambert, who supplies M&S, Waitrose and 300 independent retailers, to set up in France after £150,000 hole in revenue.

A British wine wholesaler who last year criticised Brexit as the biggest threat to his business in 30 years has decided to leave the UK after post-Brexit paperwork made a £150,000 hole in revenue.

Just read the article in the Guardian. What a sh!tshow.  Someone should get Rees-Mogg on to say why it's such a success story. 

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6 minutes ago, coprolite said:

The example you've just given is of a reduction in cross border trade. 

Yes, but I know that the UK producers have increased production to compensate for people abandoning European suppliers.

Surely a good thing.

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7 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Isolated examples are worse than useless.

Worse than useless? A major wholesaler supplying over 300 independent retailers is an example - not an isolated example - of individuals, companies, and the public suffering from the total disaster that is Brexit. Jeez, man, add up all these "isolated examples". A monumental disaster from start to fini...oh wait, it isn't even finished.

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1 minute ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

Worse than useless? A major wholesaler supplying over 300 independent retailers is an example - not an isolated example - of individuals, companies, and the public suffering from the total disaster that is Brexit. Jeez, man, add up all these "isolated examples". A monumental disaster from start to fini...oh wait, it isn't even finished.

I bet the Guardian spends a great deal of time looking for such cases.

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