Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[jakedee]

It’s been a bit of a disaster so far, but I can still see why folk voted for it. It seems to me that it’s similar to folk wanting independence for Scotland. It’s folk wanting independence from Europe. I’d imagine that Independence for Scotland would bring a similar shitstorm in the short to medium term. I’d imagine that a lot of people, on seeing how it’s gone, would change their vote. Also, on seeing how abjectly bad the current Westminster government is, people will surely be questioning how this shower of no-marks got to be MPs.

The difference being there would be no unachievable "red lines" demanded by the Scotgov. The only objection to freedom of movement(although a similar agreement as with RoI could be reached),or trade barriers would be from Westminster.
Yes, an alignment to EU regulations, if Scotland decides that route,would require (if they were different) an alternative approach to imports/exports to/from rUK.
Not any different to a relationship with any other country.



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[speckled tangerine]

12 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

It’s been a bit of a disaster so far, but I can still see why folk voted for it. It seems to me that it’s similar to folk wanting independence for Scotland. It’s folk wanting independence from Europe. I’d imagine that Independence for Scotland would bring a similar shitstorm in the short to medium term. I’d imagine that a lot of people, on seeing how it’s gone, would change their vote. Also, on seeing how abjectly bad the current Westminster government is, people will surely be questioning how this shower of no-marks got to be MPs.

I think the big difference is that Scotland will have the goodwill of Europe and the international community.

The UK has antagonised everyone that counts and expects Europe in particular to fold- for instance, the unbuilt import/export facilities in Wales & Kent.

We'll make it work. The brexiteers are making absolutely no attempt to do so and this will not change.

 

[Scary Bear]

2 minutes ago, speckled tangerine said:

I think the big difference is that Scotland will have the goodwill of Europe and the international community.

The UK has antagonised everyone that counts and expects Europe in particular to fold- for instance, the unbuilt import/export facilities in Wales & Kent.

We'll make it work. The brexiteers are making absolutely no attempt to do so and this will not change.

 

Goodwill of Europe? We’d presumably have to apply for membership and they’d be holding the cards. We’ve seen what a shower of shitehouses the Westminster government are and we need them to be ‘no hard feelings lads, let’s make it work’ rather than ‘we are going to f**k you up and make sure this is a car crash.’

[speckled tangerine]

3 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

Goodwill of Europe? We’d presumably have to apply for membership and they’d be holding the cards. We’ve seen what a shower of shitehouses the Westminster government are and we need them to be ‘no hard feelings lads, let’s make it work’ rather than ‘we are going to f**k you up and make sure this is a car crash.’

Europe would hold the cards, no doubt. They hold the cards now with the UK. 

If you're scared of what Westminster threatens us with in two, five, ten years time then God bless you. At best England/UK will be a middle ranking European nation albeit with nuclear toys located on Scottish territory. 

I guarantee you won't be hearing about how "we're" the 17th biggest economy (or whatever) in the world after this act of self sabotage when we used to be the 5th until fairly recently. 

They are waving an increasingly flaccid cock of a fading power. 

[sparky88]

57 minutes ago, jakedee said:

The difference being there would be no unachievable "red lines" demanded by the Scotgov. 
 

Keeping an open border with rUK will be a red line for a post independence negotiating team. And that will limit what sort of relationship Scotland can have with the EU. 

Incidentally, the UK still hasn't sorted the issues with the Irish border. David Frost kicks the can down the road every 6 months in the hope a unicorn turns up (ie a technological solution that avoids border checks) 

[jakedee]

Keeping an open border with rUK will be a red line for a post independence negotiating team. And that will limit what sort of relationship Scotland can have with the EU. 
Incidentally, the UK still hasn't sorted the issues with the Irish border. David Frost kicks the can down the road every 6 months in the hope a unicorn turns up (ie a technological solution that avoids border checks) 

A Scottish negotiating team will only insist on any form of border with the rUK, if it is part of the single market/EFTA(at the request of the EU to protect the internal market).
That will then isolate rUK (unless of course an EU/UK agreement is reached before then).
We could have a situation where Scotland can trade freely with N.I. and the EU, but not with England and Wales(that will be their choice). It will also be ours if a referendum to rejoin the EU ( in whatever form) is held.



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[sparky88]

6 hours ago, jakedee said:

A Scottish negotiating team will only insist on any form of border with the rUK, if it is part of the single market/EFTA(at the request of the EU to protect the internal market).
That will then isolate rUK (unless of course an EU/UK agreement is reached before then).
We could have a situation where Scotland can trade freely with N.I. and the EU, but not with England and Wales(that will be their choice). It will also be ours if a referendum to rejoin the EU ( in whatever form) is held.



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If that's the case- perhaps indicated in a white paper published prior to a referendum by the SNP- then it will form the basis of a No campaign. Any friction with rUK will be jumped on by the No campaign. It probably doesn't matter to Yes supporters, but to floating voters I expect it is probably the most important issue. 

If Scotland's biggest trading partner after independence isn't rUK, then that's a massive problem imo. Can't think of too many nations where they don't have a trading relationship with their nearest neighbour. 

[strichener]

Anyone that wants back in to Europe just needs to look at what is happening with France and Oz to see how much influence Scotland would have.

France have thrown the dummy out over Oz deciding not to use their sub designs and now trade talks with the EU are delayed.

Absolutely nothing nationalistic going on.  Arewe to believe that Sweden, Spain etc. are also raging at Australia and want to teach then a lesson.

[DiegoDiego]

Can't think of too many nations where they don't have a trading relationship with their nearest neighbour. 

The are a few but they're not situations anyone would want to replicate. Luckily, we're almost the opposite of landlocked, so in the medium term we would be relatively okay as opposed to if say San Marino and Italy stopped getting on.

[Baxter Parp]

6 minutes ago, strichener said:

Anyone that wants back in to Europe just needs to look at what is happening with France and Oz to see how much influence Scotland would have.

France have thrown the dummy out over Oz deciding not to use their sub designs and now trade talks with the EU are delayed.

Absolutely nothing nationalistic going on.  Arewe to believe that Sweden, Spain etc. are also raging at Australia and want to teach then a lesson.

Where are you getting this from? 

[101]

Absolute tragedy for the British turkey farmers who have supplied virtually 100% of British supermarkets are now set to be under cut because we still are in a Brexit limbo.

If it's too difficult to make it work why not roll back some red lines and re-engage with the UK about closer alignment, or are we going to wait until everything has been trashed before doing that?

 

 

[Baxter Parp]

50 minutes ago, 101 said:

If it's too difficult to make it work why not roll back some red lines and re-engage with the UK about closer alignment, or are we going to wait until everything has been trashed before doing that?

The red lines are the UK's. The EU is just abiding by the agreement.

[101]

Just now, Baxter Parp said:

The red lines are the UK's. The EU is just abiding by the agreement.

That's what I mean, our exit agreement is unworkable because of the lines we put down why not relax a few of them rejoin the customs union and all that brings with it and actually deliver on leaving the European Union, rather than this mess

 

[Baxter Parp]

6 minutes ago, 101 said:

That's what I mean, our exit agreement is unworkable because of the lines we put down why not relax a few of them rejoin the customs union and all that brings with it and actually deliver on leaving the European Union, rather than this mess

 

Because that's not what the European Research Group want. Brexit is the result of an internal struggle of a UK political party, after all.

[williemillersmoustache]

37 minutes ago, 101 said:

That's what I mean, our exit agreement is unworkable because of the lines we put down why not relax a few of them rejoin the customs union and all that brings with it and actually deliver on leaving the European Union, rather than this mess

 

It's the same reason they made no preparations whatsoever for the changes required to make the UKs post Brexit economy and supply chains work. They'd have had to admit all the shite they told to gull little Englanders into voting for it was, well shite. 

Kwasi Kwarteng was saying yesterday that this is just a transition period where things might be a bit bumpy. As though they didnt entirely waste an actual transition period which they fucking well negotiated. 

[Scary Bear]

1 hour ago, 101 said:

Absolute tragedy for the British turkey farmers who have supplied virtually 100% of British supermarkets are now set to be under cut because we still are in a Brexit limbo.

If it's too difficult to make it work why not roll back some red lines and re-engage with the UK about closer alignment, or are we going to wait until everything has been trashed before doing that?

 

 

Why is Carlo Ancelotti killing a Turkey?

is this a metaphor?

[101]

10 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Kwasi Kwarteng was saying yesterday that this is just a transition period where things might be a bit bumpy. As though they didnt entirely waste an actual transition period which they fucking well negotiated. 

I missed that presumably the interviewer said we had a long transition period and we are now a year after that and things are getting worse not better. The brass neck of the Tories is unreal.

[BFTD]

7 hours ago, 101 said:

Absolute tragedy for the British turkey farmers who have supplied virtually 100% of British supermarkets are now set to be under cut because we still are in a Brexit limbo.

If it's too difficult to make it work why not roll back some red lines and re-engage with the UK about closer alignment, or are we going to wait until everything has been trashed before doing that?

Now to work out a way to get them to the shops in time.

[Dan Steele]

7 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Now to work out a way to get them to the shops in time.

I hear Boris is asking each of the thousands of returning EU HGV drivers to bring one or two with them.

[Jacksgranda]

11 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Now to work out a way to get them to the shops in time.

They could fly over. Oh, wait...