BigDoddyKane Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) I think you can be critical of the single market and UK at same time, there are no sides Edited September 17, 2021 by BigDoddyKane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 31 minutes ago, Detournement said: No because the UK single market also has single employment law, minimum wage, taxation and benefits system. No it doesn't 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 44 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said: I think you can be critical of the single market and UK at same time, there are no sides He has long pretended to be a socialist and has used that pretence as a fig leaf for opposing the nasty, capitalist political constructs of the EU and single market. However, he can’t handle one breath of criticism of the blessed UK or its single market (as those capitalist, political constructs are apparently Jim-dandy - perfect, in fact, and naturally dear to a true, ruby-red socialist’s heart). Boy’s a carpetbagging bullshit-merchant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 38 minutes ago, Antlion said: He has long pretended to be a socialist and has used that pretence as a fig leaf for opposing the nasty, capitalist political constructs of the EU and single market. However, he can’t handle one breath of criticism of the blessed UK or its single market (as those capitalist, political constructs are apparently Jim-dandy - perfect, in fact, and naturally dear to a true, ruby-red socialist’s heart). Boy’s a carpetbagging bullshit-merchant. You talk an incredible amount of shite. Capitalism is a disaster for the planet and everyone on it. But we are talking about concrete things and the EU single market with freedom of capital and movement are far worse than the post WW2 national markets it replaced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 There's something about being asked to think beyond the confines of the Scottish independence debate that leads some folk to a short circuit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, Detournement said: You talk an incredible amount of shite. Capitalism is a disaster for the planet and everyone on it. But we are talking about concrete things and the EU single market with freedom of capital and movement are far worse than the post WW2 national markets it replaced. Falling back on the usual MO I see - posturing about the evils of capitalism with all the zeal of (and less skill than) a sixth-year debating student, whilst hoping everyone ignores how your “principles” disappear the minute the rectitude of Blighty is questioned. Are you suggesting that the UK is not a “concrete thing” and therefore, unlike the EU, should not be questioned? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 3 hours ago, BigDoddyKane said: The single market has always been about exploiting cheap labour, otherwise it wouldnt be so driven to keep expanding You have no idea what the single market is and you've confused it with free movement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Detournement said: No because the UK single market also has single employment law, minimum wage, taxation and benefits system Are you sure? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Antlion said: Falling back on the usual MO I see - posturing about the evils of capitalism with all the zeal of (and less skill than) a sixth-year debating student, whilst hoping everyone ignores how your “principles” disappear the minute the rectitude of Blighty is questioned. Are you suggesting that the UK is not a “concrete thing” and therefore, unlike the EU, should not be questioned? No obviously the UK and the post WW2 settlement in the West wasn't ideal and there is copious amounts of criticism of it from socialists and communists available to read from the 50s, 60s and 70s. However it' was indisputably better for working class people, a more equal society and a more representative democracy than we currently have under the legacy of Reagan, Thatcher and European integration. We live in an era where workers are powerless against fire and rehire, more austerity is being enforced while simultaneously the government prints money and hands it to the rich and nothing credible is being done about the climate disaster. So i'm aware that the UK is a disaster but i'm not willing to ignore the EU's contribution (including the UK part in that) or pretend that things can improve through the SNP's vision of an independent Scotland which is still integrated into UK and EU neoliberalism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, Detournement said: No obviously the UK and the post WW2 settlement in the West wasn't ideal and there is copious amounts of criticism of it from socialists and communists available to read from the 50s, 60s and 70s. However it' was indisputably better for working class people, a more equal society and a more representative democracy than we currently have under the legacy of Reagan, Thatcher and European integration. We live in an era where workers are powerless against fire and rehire, more austerity is being enforced while simultaneously the government prints money and hands it to the rich and nothing credible is being done about the climate disaster. So i'm aware that the UK is a disaster but i'm not willing to ignore the EU's contribution (including the UK part in that) or pretend that things can improve through the SNP's vision of an independent Scotland which is still integrated into UK and EU neoliberalism. So your preference is to break up one neoliberal political union in favour of what looks like perpetual Tory rule but insist on maintaining another neoliberal political union (which, funnily enough, looks like ensuring perpetual Tory rule) because you don’t like the ideas of a neoliberal SNP. Odd: it looks like both Brexit and maintaining the UK (your two favoured positions) result in increasing and long-term Tory rule. Such socialism. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 5 hours ago, NotThePars said: There's something about being asked to think beyond the confines of the Scottish independence debate that leads some folk to a short circuit. Without independence there is zero chance of any kind of reform. Zero. Anthony C Pick, if he had written an updated article on constitutional reform, would now agree I am sure. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 On 16/09/2021 at 13:26, Granny Danger said: If Scottish voters were as racist as English ones we would not have the government in Scotland that we have. Clearly the English racists have been mobilised to vote 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 57 minutes ago, coprolite said: Clearly the English racists have been mobilised to vote #mobilisethescottishracists. Yes I can see some folk buying into that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 Kincy on the top right, there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Kincy on the top right, there. He wishes. He’s actually just off-camera, polishing the big man’s shoes and dragging the trolley of cans. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapy FFC Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Hedgecutter said: Move alone, nothing to see here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 Winter of discontent incoming.. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/21/maggots-and-mayhem-a-day-on-a-bin-round-in-broken-brexit-britain 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 5 hours ago, welshbairn said: Winter of discontent incoming.. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/21/maggots-and-mayhem-a-day-on-a-bin-round-in-broken-brexit-britain I'm sure any major shortages and disruption to the supply chain in the coming years will occupy the same space in the national psyche that some counties not getting their bins collected in the 70s has been weaponised against every vaguely left of centre Labour Party 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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