Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[bendan]

On 28/08/2021 at 10:58, coprolite said:

Wages will only be pushed up if firms can pass on price rises.

Where business customers of hauliers can't pass those rises on themselves they'll fold.

As well as significantly reducing wages for the newly unemployed, this will reduce demand for freight, reducing the price that can be charged and wages paid, probably at a higher level than before but potentially not. 

Also end consumers will have higher prices to pay and a smaller range of goods (as those at the margins of viability drop out of the market.) 

...

This all reads like one of those CBI/IoD press releases at the time Labour brought in the minimum wage. It's amazing the way Brexit has completely distorted the normal debate in the UK. The (white collar) Remainer left seem to be arguing that wage rises for people in (non white collar) shit jobs are disastrous.

[Dawson Park Boy]

12 minutes ago, bendan said:

This all reads like one of those CBI/IoD press releases at the time Labour brought in the minimum wage. It's amazing the way Brexit has completely distorted the normal debate in the UK. The (white collar) Remainer left seem to be arguing that wage rises for people in (non white collar) shit jobs are disastrous.

You are correct.

Wage levels for far too long have been kept depressed due to an abundance of cheap foreign labour.

Now is the time for the British workforce to cash in.

Yes, it will create inflationary pressures on prices but it is up to companies to find efficiencies.

[coprolite]

4 minutes ago, bendan said:

This all reads like one of those CBI/IoD press releases at the time Labour brought in the minimum wage. It's amazing the way Brexit has completely distorted the normal debate in the UK. The (white collar) Remainer left seem to be arguing that wage rises for people in (non white collar) shit jobs are disastrous.

My main point was that wage rises aren't inevitable or even very likely in the long term. 

My secondary point was there would be winners and losers. 

Wage rises in a sectir are of course good news for the people in that sector. Not everyone is in that sector though. No disastrous consequences. 

Please join DPB in the dunce corner. 

[bendan]

45 minutes ago, coprolite said:

My main point was that wage rises aren't inevitable or even very likely in the long term. 

My secondary point was there would be winners and losers. 

Wage rises in a sectir are of course good news for the people in that sector. Not everyone is in that sector though. No disastrous consequences. 

Please join DPB in the dunce corner. 

And my main point was that 'This all reads like one of those CBI/IoD press releases at the time Labour brought in the minimum wage'

[Gaz]

On 29/08/2021 at 13:01, Soapy FFC said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9936697/MAIL-SUNDAY-COMMENT-Lets-unite-EU-crush-curse-border-bureaucracy.html#

I had to chuckle at the headline.

 

In fairness, the MoS have a different editorial team to the DM. The MoS supported Remain.

[coprolite]

2 minutes ago, bendan said:

And my main point was that 'This all reads like one of those CBI/IoD press releases at the time Labour brought in the minimum wage'

Inasmuch as they mention wage levels and market mechanisms, that's a fair point. 

Inasmuch as i'm not predicting economic Armaggedon on behalf of capitalist interests, i disagree. 

[bendan]

5 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Inasmuch as i'm not predicting economic Armaggedon on behalf of capitalist interests, i disagree. 

BUSINESSES WILL FOLD, UNEMPLOYMENT WILL RISE, PRICES WILL GO UP AND YOU'LL HAVE LESS CHOICE!

Was that you, the CBI (on minimum wages), or both of you?

[coprolite]

Just now, bendan said:

BUSINESSES WILL FOLD, UNEMPLOYMENT WILL RISE, PRICES WILL GO UP AND YOU'LL HAVE LESS CHOICE!

Was that you, the CBI (on minimum wages), or both of you?

I never said unemployment would rise. That was their main argument against min wage. 

[jakedee]

You are correct.
Wage levels for far too long have been kept depressed due to an abundance of cheap foreign labour.
Now is the time for the British workforce to cash in.
Yes, it will create inflationary pressures on prices but it is up to companies to find efficiencies.

Yup, we all know what "efficiencies" mean. [emoji849]

[bendan]

6 minutes ago, jakedee said:

Yup, we all know what "efficiencies" mean.

Yes, things like not bringing 1.5L bottles of English spring water or multi-packs of shite crisps all the way to the Highlands.

[Girth]

Any positives yet!? 

[bendan]

14 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I never said unemployment would rise. That was their main argument against min wage. 

I apologise. When you said businesses would fold and you mentioned the impact of reduced spending by the 'newly unemployed' I thought you were implying unemployment would rise. I accept that your concerns about wage rises for blue collar workers in no way resembles the pish put out by right wing opponents of higher minimum wages.

[scottsdad]

4 minutes ago, Girth said:

Any positives yet!? 

[coprolite]

3 minutes ago, bendan said:

I apologise. When you said businesses would fold and you mentioned the impact of reduced spending by the 'newly unemployed' I thought you were implying unemployment would rise. I accept that your concerns about wage rises for blue collar workers in no way resembles the pish put out by right wing opponents of higher minimum wages.

Ok, wage rises will be funded entirely by reduced executive pay and lower dividends. There won’t be any other costs at all from increases and no impact on the structure of the economy from labour shortages in certain sectors.

It’s basically a free hit and we should be grateful to the protectionist xenophobes for giving us this wonderful opportunity to raise living standards for all.

Better?

[bendan]

2 minutes ago, coprolite said:

Ok, wage rises will be funded entirely by reduced executive pay and lower dividends. There won’t be any other costs at all from increases and no impact on the structure of the economy from labour shortages in certain sectors.

It’s basically a free hit and we should be grateful to the protectionist xenophobes for giving us this wonderful opportunity to raise living standards for all.

Better?

No, you are just substituting a Kindergarten level of analysis with a Kindergarten level of debate.

TBF though, the entire Brexit argument in the UK has been much the same.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

48 minutes ago, Girth said:

Any positives yet!? 

Wetherspoons are apparently running out of beer.

[coprolite]

8 minutes ago, bendan said:

No, you are just substituting a Kindergarten level of analysis with a Kindergarten level of debate.

TBF though, the entire Brexit argument in the UK has been much the same.

Kindergarten level is less foreigners = more money for Brits.

Brexiters are claiming labour shortages as a success for brexit because of upwards pressure on wages for selected jobs. 
 

I think it’s fair to point out that a benefit for some people isn’t the same as being a benefit to the economy. 
 

I think it’s also fair to point out that upwards pressure on some wages from reduced labour supply won’t necessarily lead to higher wages even for those specific jobs.

Comparing that to cbi scaremongering is either missing the point or disingenuous.  

 

[Girth]

57 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

This looks like a spoof. Any good!?

[jakedee]

Yes, things like not bringing 1.5L bottles of English spring water or multi-packs of shite crisps all the way to the Highlands.

There is no way "bringing 1.5L bottles of English spring water or multi-packs of shite crisps all the way to the Highlands" is more expensive than (if they can be) locally sourced.
Companies may have inefficiencies, but it won't be in sourcing and distributing.
Large supermarket chains eg. are now suffering supply issues due to their previous efficiency savings of centralising distribution depots.

[bendan]

4 minutes ago, jakedee said:

There is no way "bringing 1.5L bottles of English spring water or multi-packs of shite crisps all the way to the Highlands" is more expensive than (if they can be) locally sourced.
Companies may have inefficiencies, but it won't be in sourcing and distributing.
Large supermarket chains eg. are now suffering supply issues due to their previous efficiency savings of centralising distribution depots.

Isn't it more likely that they simply wouldn't offer those products in places like the Highlands, as it doesn't make sense to devote limited resources to the task of delivering these low value, bulky items?