Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Jacksgranda]

9 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Ben gets it wildly wrong.

Maybe I've picked this up wrong, but surely if we were still in the EU these charges couldn't be introduced, so it is the result of Brexit.

A bit of a nuisance, because if I strayed anywhere near the Donegal border I  used to get a message "You are now liable for roaming charges", or words to that effect, so no doubt this will apply again when my phone provider reintroduces these charges.

[Soapy FFC]

8 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

Maybe I've picked this up wrong, but surely if we were still in the EU these charges couldn't be introduced, so it is the result of Brexit.

A bit of a nuisance, because if I strayed anywhere near the Donegal border I  used to get a message "You are now liable for roaming charges", or words to that effect, so no doubt this will apply again when my phone provider reintroduces these charges.

That'll not be Brexit's fault, that'll be your fault for living or being near the border. Come on, you need to start thinking like a Brexiteer!

[Jacksgranda]

Actually, I've just thought of something - as NI is still in the EU we won't be getting hit with these charges - trebles all round!

[Baxter Parp]

 

[SANTAN]

15 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

 

This is some top tier investigative journalism. I'd be interested in watching the documentary when it comes out. 

 

[coprolite]

There are increasing reports of upwards pressure on wages in some sectors (mainly hospitality) due to brexit induced staff shortages. 

It remains to be seen how long term or sustainable this pressure is and whether general wage levels will increase across the economy. Or whether the increased wages are enough to live on. 

For clarity, this does not mean i think brexit was a good idea. 

[strichener]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

There are increasing reports of upwards pressure on wages in some sectors (mainly hospitality) due to brexit induced staff shortages. 

It remains to be seen how long term or sustainable this pressure is and whether general wage levels will increase across the economy. Or whether the increased wages are enough to live on. 

For clarity, this does not mean i think brexit was a good idea. 

It does however give credence to the argument that unfettered immigration from countries with lower living standards suppresses wages.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

It's been suggested before, I know, but surely now there is no doubt that the thread title needs updating. It "became" quite some time ago, and maybe we can help those still cheerleading economic self-harm in the name of "taking back control" to start to see reason?

[coprolite]

1 minute ago, strichener said:

It does however give credence to the argument that unfettered immigration from countries with lower living standards suppresses wages.

Yes, it does "give credence" to that point of view but i'm not sure it necessarily supports it. 

It's always worth remembering that wages for a specific job are not the same as aggregate wage levels across an economy. 

Also worth noting that these jobs are apparently still largely unfilled, which could look more like a skills shortage, not that that's mutually exclusive. 

[DiegoDiego]

Yes, it does "give credence" to that point of view but i'm not sure it necessarily supports it. 
It's always worth remembering that wages for a specific job are not the same as aggregate wage levels across an economy. 
Also worth noting that these jobs are apparently still largely unfilled, which could look more like a skills shortage, not that that's mutually exclusive. 

A lot of the hospitality jobs people are struggling to fill would be classed as unskilled. Brexit has obviously had an effect, but so has lockdown. Lots of chefs came to the realisation that their job was actually shite, not worth the money and switched to sectors which maybe didn't pay as much but meant they got regular breaks, half the stress and actually had time to see friends and family.

As for a skills shortage, in theory the workforce has never been more skilled. I know many folk ate monster munch and watched Love Island through the lockdown, but a great many used that time to develop or learn skills.

Similar hospitality shortages are being seen in the USA which obviously hasn't been affected by Brexit. Businesses are realising that they need to offer hospitality staff a better work:life balance or more pay. Either way, expect costs to be passed on to the consumer.

[coprolite]

9 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

A lot of the hospitality jobs people are struggling to fill would be classed as unskilled. Brexit has obviously had an effect, but so has lockdown. Lots of chefs came to the realisation that their job was actually shite, not worth the money and switched to sectors which maybe didn't pay as much but meant they got regular breaks, half the stress and actually had time to see friends and family.

As for a skills shortage, in theory the workforce has never been more skilled. I know many folk ate monster munch and watched Love Island through the lockdown, but a great many used that time to develop or learn skills.

Similar hospitality shortages are being seen in the USA which obviously hasn't been affected by Brexit. Businesses are realising that they need to offer hospitality staff a better work:life balance or more pay. Either way, expect costs to be passed on to the consumer.

 

I don't really know what's going on in hospiality at the moment as i don't work in or with the sector much. I'd assumed due to being served by East Europeans for the last decade that it was mainly brexit fuelled. But it is interesting what you say about the US- maybe the wall is working? 

I did work in hospitality for many years and while it's not exactly rocket science i wouldn't say it's unskilled. Apart from some KP jobs you generally need basic literacy, numeracy and communication abilities. 

I'd be surprised if worse paid work was available as it's generally minimum wage. But i can well see why people would opt out for no financial gain. The hours alone are horrible (split shifts Wednesday to Sunday, maybe s breakfast stint or two thrown in). 

In my current job there is a real shortage of people with relevant skills to meet demand. 

When people were talking ten years ago about how austerity would cause a permanent reduction of capacity in the economy, this is what it looks like in practice. 

[DiegoDiego]

Brexit is undoubtedly a big reason, but hospitality was fucked by lockdown and many folk simply found better jobs in construction or whatever and haven't come back.

As for unskilled I guess that depends on where you draw the line. I'd like to think that all non-disabled adults over sixteen are literate and numerate enough to be a waiter, especially now everything is being done through tablets and card payments. At my previous job the bar manager had trouble reading and counting but managed anyway, though it did take him a full day to do a stock take.

At one of the branches of my current work they've just hired a KP. Eighteen years-old never worked a day in her life, fresh out of school. They'd been advertising for nearly three months before getting her.

[BFTD]

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

It's been suggested before, I know, but surely now there is no doubt that the thread title needs updating. It "became" quite some time ago, and maybe we can help those still cheerleading economic self-harm in the name of "taking back control" to start to see reason?

No, anything and everything will have been worth enduring, up to the point that we all end up starving to death.

And, even then, there'd be millions of emaciated corpses found with two fingers raised towards the continent, and "Up Yours Delors!" written in the dirt nearby.

[welshbairn]

 

[aDONisSheep]

'The leopard is eating my face!' - Bruce Dickinson

 

'I only wanted to end their freedom of movement!' - says vacuous fucking idiot

[coprolite]

"I mean, come on" 

Is one of the more substantial and coherent arguments i've heard yet from a brexiter. So much so he used it twice. 

[coprolite]

3 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

Brexit is undoubtedly a big reason, but hospitality was fucked by lockdown and many folk simply found better jobs in construction or whatever and haven't come back.

As for unskilled I guess that depends on where you draw the line. I'd like to think that all non-disabled adults over sixteen are literate and numerate enough to be a waiter, especially now everything is being done through tablets and card payments. At my previous job the bar manager had trouble reading and counting but managed anyway, though it did take him a full day to do a stock take.

At one of the branches of my current work they've just hired a KP. Eighteen years-old never worked a day in her life, fresh out of school. They'd been advertising for nearly three months before getting her.

Interesting perspective. I guess if it's a structural shift in people's willingness to put up with the shit then higher headcount business models will get squeezed out at the lower cost end of the market. 

[BFTD]

I really can't get enough of millionaires who voted to leave the EU complaining that, now that we've left the EU, their opportunities to make even more money have been compromised.

We should start a fundraiser. Or, more likely, the government will do it for them.

[Fullerene]

4 hours ago, coprolite said:

"I mean, come on" 

Is one of the more substantial and coherent arguments i've heard yet from a brexiter. So much so he used it twice. 

Singers have been known to say the same thing twice or so I am told.

[Baxter Parp]

UK share of Horizon 2020 funds dropped £1.5bn since Brexit vote

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/uk-share-of-horizon-2020-funds-dropped-15bn-since-brexit-vote/4013901.article

The UK’s scientists have missed out on £1.5 billion in Horizon 2020 funds since the country voted to leave the EU in 2016.