Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, bendan said:

You really don't know what you're talking about here, do you?

Not even the EU-Japan deal removes all the trade tariffs and barriers.  They're still not allowed to export dead whales to the EU, for instance.  This is why I mentioned maybe not getting the same deal as the EU (we wouldn't).  Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

[bendan]

5 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Not even the EU-Japan deal removes all the trade tariffs and barriers.  

Indeed. Which makes the initial 'haven't signed an agreement yet for 92% of our trade' graphic that you initially posted a bit ridiculous, doesn't it? But if you want to get into an argument with yourself, please continue.

Just for a laugh, you could detail all the great services deals the EU has done that.

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, bendan said:

Indeed. Which makes the initial 'haven't signed an agreement yet for 92% of our trade' graphic that you initially posted a bit ridiculous, doesn't it?

How so?  As part of the EU 60% of our trade was through negotiated deals or as part of single market. As of now, it will be 8% after December 31st.

[bendan]

12 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

How so?  As part of the EU 60% of our trade was through negotiated deals or as part of single market. As of now, it will be 8% after December 31st.

And the key point is whether we do a deal with the EU or not - the rest is largely irrelevant. The EU has not yet reached agreements covering most of our non-EU trade, so quite why anyone would expect the UK to reach such agreements by the end of the transition period is puzzling. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by bendan

[Antlion]

3 minutes ago, bendan said:

And the key point is whether we do a deal with the EU or not - the rest is largely irrelevant. The EU has not yet reached agreements covering most of our non-EU trade, so quite why anyone would expect the UK to reach such agreements by the end of the transition period is puzzling. 

The BritNats are currently claiming that Johnson has done a deal behind closed doors but those b*****d FOREIGNERS are keeping it quiet until September because reasons. 

[Baxter Parp]

5 minutes ago, bendan said:

And the key point is whether we do a deal with the EU or not - the rest is largely irrelevant.

11% of our trade is irrelevant?  What the f**k? And that 11% was before the EU agreements with Japan, Vietnam and Singapore.

5 minutes ago, bendan said:

The EU has not yet reached agreements covering most of our non-EU trade, so quite why anyone would expect the UK to reach such agreements by the end of the transition period is puzzling. 

That's a conclusion you've made in your head.  Nobody's suggested such a thing.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Baxter Parp

[bendan]

14 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

11% of our trade is irrelevant?  What the f**k?

No, it's irrelevant because we're clearly going to have agreements in place for most of the non-EU trade where current agreements exist - any shortfall is not going to amount to a huge proportion of our trade. Even in that proportion, a chunk would be at WTO tariffs which are the same or not broadly different from current levels.

 

14 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

That's a conclusion you've made in your head.  Nobody's suggested such a thing.

You actually said 'oh oh' after posting a graphic saying the UK hadn't reached an agreement yet for 92% of its trade, despite the fact a large part of that 92% isn't covered by agreements at the moment and the bulk of that which is covered is our trade with the EU itself. 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by bendan

[Baxter Parp]

15 minutes ago, bendan said:

No, it's irrelevant because we're clearly going to have agreements in place for most of the non-EU trade where current agreements exist - any shortfall is not going to amount to a huge proportion of our trade.

Oh aye, who gives a shit about the odd £7-£8 Bn of trade? More than that now that it includes Japan, etc. It's a mere bagatelle.

15 minutes ago, bendan said:

Even in that proportion, a chunk would be at WTO tariffs which are the same or not broadly different from current levels.

Utter rot.  If this was in any way true you wouldn't need trade deals.  Nonsense.

15 minutes ago, bendan said:

You actually said 'oh oh' after posting a graphic saying the UK hadn't reached an agreement yet for 92% of its trade, despite the fact a large part of that 92% isn't covered by agreements at the moment and the bulk of that which is covered is our trade with the EU itself. 

I never suggested all trade was covered by trade deals. That was your interpretation.  f**k knows why.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Baxter Parp

[bendan]

6 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Utter rot.  If this was in any way true you wouldn't need trade deals.  Nonsense.

We don't currently have trade deals with the US, China or Australia, among others, yet we seem to have managed to trade with them. Of course, it would be better if we did have deals, because we'd do a bit more business. Perhaps you could explain why we don't currently have deals with them, seeing as you think it's so utterly disastrous.

Let's face it, you've posted an entirely pointless CNN graphic which adds absolutely nothing to anyone's understanding of the current situation, in the apparent belief that it's important news.

[Baxter Parp]

13 hours ago, bendan said:

We don't currently have trade deals with the US, China or Australia, among others, yet we seem to have managed to trade with them. Of course, it would be better if we did have deals, because we'd do a bit more business. Perhaps you could explain why we don't currently have deals with them, seeing as you think it's so utterly disastrous.

 "We" don't have a deal with the US, China or Australia because up until recently "we" were in the EU and individual countries can't do deals with other countries while they're part of the single market. Fucking hell.

13 hours ago, bendan said:

Let's face it, you've posted an entirely pointless CNN graphic which adds absolutely nothing to anyone's understanding of the current situation, in the apparent belief that it's important news.

Let's really face it, you're upset because you were caught talking bullshit about what was, in actual fact, an amusing but accurate look at the current situation. Go and have a lie down.

[Baxter Parp]

Just to piss a little reality on proceedings:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-barnier-trade-talks-uk-eu-boris-johnson-a9681496.html

Brexit trade talks actually ‘going backwards’, warns EU’s Michel Barnier

[John Lambies Doos]

Just to piss a little reality on proceedings:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-barnier-trade-talks-uk-eu-boris-johnson-a9681496.html
Brexit trade talks actually ‘going backwards’, warns EU’s Michel Barnier

Quelle Surprise.
It's crash out January

[bendan]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

 "We" don't have a deal with the US, China or Australia because up until recently "we" were in the EU and individual countries can't do deals with other countries while they're part of the single market. Fucking hell.

Let's really face it, you're upset because you were caught talking bullshit about what was, in actual fact, an amusing but accurate look at the current situation. Go and have a lie down.

When I said we don't currently have a deal with the US or China, I of course mean the EU, whose deals we are currently operating under, have no deal with the US or China. We will inherit this 'no deal' position on Jan 1.

 

[bendan]

Incidentally, while the EU and thus the UK has no trade agreement with China or the US, the Chinese monitor I'm using attracted a 0% import tariff, as did the bottle of US IPA I had earlier. 

[Baxter Parp]

22 minutes ago, bendan said:

When I said we don't currently have a deal with the US or China, I of course mean the EU, 

Of course you did. Well, there are political and socio-economic reasons for not having a deal with China.  Famously, rogue states wanting to dump cheap goods into your markets are generally regarded as "not good trading partners", so it should be pretty fucking obvious why we don't have a deal with them.  As for the US, the EU has a deal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership), it's just such a minefield of horrors, there's not much chance it'll be passed. Negotiations with Australia started in 2018, IIRC.  Anything else?

[Baxter Parp]

9 minutes ago, bendan said:

Incidentally, while the EU and thus the UK has no trade agreement with China or the US, the Chinese monitor I'm using attracted a 0% import tariff, as did the bottle of US IPA I had earlier. 

Good for you, you found two things that don't attract a tariff in the EU. Have a cookie.

By the way, if you're actually using a monitor made in China and not just saying shit that you think might make a point, I'm a bit sad, really.

[bendan]

8 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Of course you did. Well, there are political and socio-economic reasons for not having a deal with China.  Famously, rogue states wanting to dump cheap goods into your markets are generally regarded as "not good trading partners", so it should be pretty fucking obvious why we don't have a deal with them.  As for the US, the EU has a deal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership), it's just such a minefield of horrors, there's not much chance it'll be passed. Negotiations with Australia started in 2018, IIRC.  Anything else?

There's currently no deal with the US, as I said. Negotiations started with Aus in 2018, as you said, but the EU generally takes 7 to 10 years to do an FTA. Why did it wait until 2018 to start?

The reality is that there are loads of fantastic reasons to stay in the EU, like Freedom of Movement and support and integration of Eastern European nations into democratic systems of government, but Parpy still thinks it's somehow all about the EU's wonderful  trade deals, which strangely doesn't cover their two biggest trading partners. That's despite the fact the EU was, before Trump, the most anti free trade of any developed countries/regions.

True, Brexit has put a rocket up the arse of their FTA negotiators and they've suddenly developed a desire for deals, but as our own negotiations will show, it's an intensely political process because the fundamental instinct is to create barriers.

[bendan]

23 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Good for you, you found two things that don't attract a tariff in the EU. Have a cookie.

By the way, if you're actually using a monitor made in China and not just saying shit that you think might make a point, I'm a bit sad, really.

Loads of things don't attract tariffs. The Chinese, who the EU don't have a deal with, export vast quantities of stuff into Europe at low or zero tariffs. 

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, bendan said:

There's currently no deal with the US, as I said

I just copied you to a link describing the deal with the US, it exists, it hasn't passed. It's a nightmare.  But, you know, just ignore reality.

2 minutes ago, bendan said:

Negotiations started with Aus in 2018, as you said, but the EU generally takes 7 to 10 years to do an FTA. Why did it wait until 2018 to start?

Because they already had a "framework" and wanted to make a formal deal? https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/eeas/files/partnership_framework2009eu_en.pdf

7 minutes ago, bendan said:

Parpy still thinks it's somehow all about the EU's wonderful  trade deals, which strangely doesn't cover their two biggest trading partners.

Parpy? Ok, Bendy, why don't the EU have trade deals with their two biggest trading partners?

 

12 minutes ago, bendan said:

the EU was, before Trump, the most anti free trade of any developed countries/regions

Oh yes, the organisation that facilitated free trade between all these countries:

Is anti free trade.  I'm starting to think you're an idiot.

[bendan]

11 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

I just copied you to a link describing the deal with the US, it exists, it hasn't passed. It's a nightmare.  But, you know, just ignore reality.

Because they already had a "framework" and wanted to make a formal deal? https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/eeas/files/partnership_framework2009eu_en.pdf

Parpy? Ok, Bendy, why don't the EU have trade deals with their two biggest trading partners?

 

Oh yes, the organisation that facilitated free trade between all these countries:

Is anti free trade.  I'm starting to think you're an idiot.

Saying the EU has a trade deal with the US is like telling the teacher you've done your homework but you just forgot to bring it. The US and EU trade on WTO rules, just as it trades with 'rogue state' China.

Edited August 21, 2020 by bendan