The Moonster Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 17 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: So you acknowledge that if rUK demands control of independent Scotland's future laws and waters, and demands London court adjudication on disputes , this would indeed amount to being "stubborn and difficult to deal with"? Good. We agree. As to whether it's still a Tory government holding the reins at the time of these negotiations , who knows? If you want to twist whats being said so that you can find someone who agrees with you then wire in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, The Moonster said: If you want to twist whats being said so that you can find someone who agrees with you then wire in. Instead of impersonating a teenager with a "wot eva" type reply, just answer the question - which part of the following do you think would be reasonable and which part would not be reasonable....." if rUK demands control of independent Scotland's future laws and waters, and demands London court adjudication on disputes" ?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Whens the next move on the £/€ raten likely to be, and could we see the pound dip again significantly any time soon? Perhaps att he conclusion of trade talks? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 If I did not want to go through acrimonious and disadvantageous negotiations with a larger power, I would simply not vote for that. I certainly wouldn't spend so much time telling people how dreadfully unfair it all is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: If I did not want to go through acrimonious and disadvantageous negotiations with a larger power, I would simply not vote for that. I certainly wouldn't spend so much time telling people how dreadfully unfair it all is. If that's how you see Scotland's position in future separation negotiations with rUK and you will therefore be voting No in Indyref 2, then fair enough. "Might is right" and all that. A bit of a depressing outlook, but at least you are being being consistent. Edited February 20, 2020 by Pet Jeden 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: If that's how you see Scotland's position in future separation negotiations with rUK and you will therefore be voting No in Indyref 2, then fair enough. "Might is right" and all that. A bit of a depressing outlook, but at least you are being being consistent. Perhaps he thinks there are more advantages to being a member of a union of independent sovereign states than being a partly-devolved region of a sovereign state, in which case it would be disadvantageous to leave the former and comparatively advantageous to leave the latter, even if both would involve complex discussions with the other power. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Just now, Antlion said: Perhaps he thinks there are more advantages to being a member of a union of independent sovereign states than being a partly-devolved region of a sovereign state, in which case it would be disadvantageous to leave the former and comparatively advantageous to leave the latter, even if both would involve complex discussions with the other power. I was going to reply to his utter nonsense but I think I'll just quote this as it saves me a lot of bother. Honestly, trying to flip the collective shoulder-shrugging and "well, what do you expect?" from most on here to seem as if folk are backing an evil empire against our plucky wee rebel alliance is getting a bit tedious. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Antlion said: Perhaps he thinks there are more advantages to being a member of a union of independent sovereign states than being a partly-devolved region of a sovereign state, in which case it would be disadvantageous to leave the former and comparatively advantageous to leave the latter, even if both would involve complex discussions with the other power. Perhaps. Who knows? Can only really go on the words he posted. That's why I highlighted them for you. The point at issue was not "is one union good and the other union bad". The point was should the smaller, leaving party always just suck it up and give in to petulant behaviour? Edited February 20, 2020 by Pet Jeden 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: I was going to reply to his utter nonsense but I think I'll just quote this as it saves me a lot of bother. Honestly, trying to flip the collective shoulder-shrugging and "well, what do you expect?" from most on here to seem as if folk are backing an evil empire against our plucky wee rebel alliance is getting a bit tedious. Well you've taken the trouble to post. So why not address the point I made, instead of deflecting? If, on reflection, you think your views are maybe a bit inconsistent , just say so. Go on. It won't hurt. Edited February 20, 2020 by Pet Jeden 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 16 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Perhaps. Who knows? Can only really go on the words he posted. That's why I highlighted them for you. The point at issue was not "is one union good and the other union bad". The point was should the smaller, leaving party always just suck it up and give in to petulant behaviour? Genuine Hibs Fan has already made clear these were his views before you quoted, which makes the above a bit redundant. The smaller, leaving party should obviously just suck it up if there are no advantages to be won in the end. If, in the end, significant advantages can be won, then obviously the smaller party will feel empowered to fight hard. Your problem here is that you’re not making a case for the UK’s departure from the EU ultimately representing significant (or any) advantages whatsoever. The contest with the bigger party in this case isn’t worth it because there are no gains to be made. The EU type of union does not restrict the UK enough to make leaving, especially like a blind idiot led by morons, advantageous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Perhaps. Who knows? Can only really go on the words he posted. That's why I highlighted them for you. The point at issue was not "is one union good and the other union bad". The point was should the smaller, leaving party always just suck it up and give in to petulant behaviour? You really need to learn the difference between someone thinking something is right or wrong - I'm a bit ambivalent and you've certainly not done anything to convince me that the EU is petulant - and someone finding it really hard to be upset when we've put ourselves in this situation. I've already told you I don't see the one real and the other hypothetical situation as being analogous, and again you've done nothing to convince me they are. I've also never said that the UK should "suck it up", but if our negotiating position is as weak as it seems to be based on our only tactic being to bleat about how unfair it all is then, maybe, we've only ourselves to blame. I just don't think we're going to agree here, I don't think your arguments have any merit. I don't think I'll be replying to you on this topic going forward 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Antlion said: Genuine Hibs Fan has already made clear these were his views before you quoted, which makes the above a bit redundant. The smaller, leaving party should obviously just suck it up if there are no advantages to be won in the end. If, in the end, significant advantages can be won, then obviously the smaller party will feel empowered to fight hard. Your problem here is that you’re not making a case for the UK’s departure from the EU ultimately representing significant (or any) advantages whatsoever. The contest with the bigger party in this case isn’t worth it because there are no gains to be made. The EU type of union does not restrict the UK enough to make leaving, especially like a blind idiot led by morons, advantageous. My problem? It's not for me to make the case for Brexit - I didn't even vote for it. But I accept the result. And I do like to chuck in an alternative view to the almost universal feedback loop of Brexit anguish that fills P&B. Clearly, you are having difficulty coming to terms with the result. Edited February 20, 2020 by Pet Jeden 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: My problem? It's not for me to make the case for Brexit - I didn't even vote for it. But I accept the result. And I do like to chuck in an alternative view to the almost universal feedback loop of Brexit anguish that fills P&B. Clearly, you are having difficulty coming to terms with the result. On the contrary, I’m satisfied that England and Wales have expressed a desire to break up a precious, precious union and to erect borders. It makes the case for Scotland, which professed an entirely different view from its fellow UK members on Europe, to strike out on its own path. The divergence of opinion between the nations clearly requires some kind of resolution, as I see no reason why each one should not get what its people want: England should be able to leave and Scotland should be able to stay. Edited February 20, 2020 by Antlion 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 My problem? It's not for me to make the case for Brexit - I didn't even vote for it. But I accept the result. And I do like to chuck in an alternative view to the almost universal feedback loop of Brexit anguish that fills P&B. Clearly, you are having difficulty coming to terms with the result.Fantastic post -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 On 19/02/2020 at 20:06, MixuFixit said: https://reut.rs/3bWAt5d Time to de-google your life. Got an email from Google.. Quote • Your service provider and data controller is now Google LLC: Because the UK is leaving the EU, we’ve updated our Terms so that a United States based company, Google LLC, is now your service provider instead of Google Ireland Limited. Google LLC will also become the data controller responsible for your information and complying with applicable privacy laws. We’re making similar changes to the terms of service for YouTube, YouTube Paid Services, and Google Play. These changes to our Terms and Privacy Policy don’t affect your privacy settings or the way we treat your information (see the Privacy Policy for details). As a reminder, you can always visit your Google Account to review your privacy settings and manage how your data is used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 On 19/02/2020 at 21:07, Pet Jeden said: Staff to patient ratios are regulated. So taking in less patients doesn't help viability. The care homes companies are geared up to the eyeballs with debt. If there's a sudden and sustained increase in costs, expect failures. The residents can't be chucked onto the streets so local authorities and the NHS will end up holding the baby. Or central government will need to find a way to subsidise the private operators. Or just nationalise the industry. Sounds like a cast iron case for deregulation right there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, coprolite said: Sounds like a cast iron case for deregulation right there. Yes, of course. You could have huge barns rammed full with thousands of residents, all looked over by a solitary watch tower manned by a 16 year old. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Pet Jeden said: Yes, of course. You could have huge barns rammed full with thousands of residents, all looked over by a solitary watch tower manned by a 16 year old. Better than having foreign sounding or looking people taking our jobs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, coprolite said: Better than having foreign sounding or looking people taking our jobs. If you can point to anywhere that I have said anything that comes within even the same postcode as that kind of sentiment then I would be embarrassed and would apologise. Are you maybe confusing me with Bohemian? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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