Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Pet Jeden]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I don't recall any of Korea, Japan or Canada having previously been EU members and then choosing to leave.  The EU is in a completely new situation here and as such they will be bargaining for the most advantageous trading outcome for their member states - would anyone seriously expect them to do otherwise ?  And the poster above is correct; of course they will play hardball 'pour encourager les autres'.

Successive UK Governments have now had the opportunity to agree a sensible trading arrangement with the EU but they have declined it in favour of f**k knows what.  Understandably then the EU is not going to sit idly by whilst some sort of casino-economy Singapore-of-the-North-Sea is created on their doorstep.  And I would hope, neither is the vast majority of the UK population who never voted for this shitfest. 

 

Why does choosing to leave confer controlling rights to the EU in future? If Mrs (or Mr?) O’Kelly Isley III ever leaves you, are you expecting to control who she goes out with in future and do you expect to have lodging rights at her gaff?

I get that your feelings might be a bit hurt, but you still have to behave like a reasonable grown up. So should the EU.

[welshbairn]

Mrs Johnson is demanding full access to Mr EU's gaff without accepting any rules from the divorce settlement.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

27 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

So you accept that they are being unreasonable - but because they are strong it’s alright? Sort of gun boat diplomacy. The international version of “what you gonnae dae aboot it, ya radge”? That kind of thinking belongs back in the colonial era.

And you want to stay close to an organisation that behaves like that? 

I don't think I've ever said anything pro-EU on here to be honest with you, so it's strange that you assume so. 

But sidestepping your silly comments re colonialism the answer would have  to be yes. I would like to be part of an organisation that tries to get the best possible terms for itself and its members, as well as being sensible in protecting its own internal integrity, rather than making unnecessary allowances to a former member who left acrimoniously and wants everything its own way.  So to answer the bit in bold - I don't accept that it is an unreasonable, unethical or even questionable position. 

[Pet Jeden]

54 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I don't think I've ever said anything pro-EU on here to be honest with you, so it's strange that you assume so. 

But sidestepping your silly comments re colonialism the answer would have  to be yes. I would like to be part of an organisation that tries to get the best possible terms for itself and its members, as well as being sensible in protecting its own internal integrity, rather than making unnecessary allowances to a former member who left acrimoniously and wants everything its own way.  So to answer the bit in bold - I don't accept that it is an unreasonable, unethical or even questionable position. 

No. You can try to dress it up however you want. But your first reaction was very telling. “Because they are in a position of strength”.

Throughout history, countries (incl. UK) doing things just “because they are in a position of strength” has resulted in all sorts of problems. Not a great philosophy.

[Pet Jeden]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Mrs Johnson is demanding full access to Mr EU's gaff without accepting any rules from the divorce settlement.

No. Just as per Canada. No “dynamic alignment” or fishing grounds control or EU court supremacy asked of them.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Just now, Pet Jeden said:

No. You can try to dress it up however you want. But your first reaction was very telling. “Because they are in a position of strength”.

Throughout history, countries (incl. UK) doing things just “because they are in a position of strength” has resulted in all sorts of problems. Not a great philosophy.

I mean, sure, you can do your best and try to compare the EU  looking after its own interests with the actions of nation state colonial powers in the 19th and 20th Centuries if you like. It's very obviously not a good comparison, it has little to no basis in historical fact, and it's pretty distasteful. 

In case you had forgotten, it was the UK who voted to leave the EU (just as they voted and were not coerced into joining), and whose government have been consistently bullish about holding feet to the fire and getting the best possible deal from trade negotiations. Why should the EU not take a hard line with such a party and get the best deal for their members? 

[Detournement]

I've just read that Bloomberg has been accussed of sexual harassment by 60 women in 40 different lawsuits. 

Bernie will wipe the floor with him. They are going to have to keep every loser in the race until the convention then wheel out HRC. 

[coprolite]

5 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

Reasoning - apart from spite - for demanding tax and standards and legal controls that they don't demand in their trade deals with Korea, Japan and Canada? From whom they get almost zero intelligence and defence help. Fire away Dave. We're all ears.

"but, but, but we're on their doorstep..." LMFAO before you even concoct your reply.

According to the EU, they gave Japan 2 lists of regulatory barriers and Japan addressed 75% during negotiations, including agreeing to use EU standards for cars and textiles. 

This is clearly convergence, not our promised divergence. 

Canada doesn't have a free trade agreement. There will still be tarrifs and quotas, including some protected products. The scale of UK trade flows with the EU dwarfs Canada's so they will be less inclined towards being relaxed about any details. But there is some wooly shite about increasing regulatory alignment nonetheless. 

Can't be arsed looking up Korea now, but it didn't take long to establish that you are at it. 

[coprolite]

6 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I've just read that Bloomberg has been accussed of sexual harassment by 60 women in 40 different lawsuits. 

Bernie will wipe the floor with him. They are going to have to keep every loser in the race until the convention then wheel out HRC. 

? 

[welshbairn]

58 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I've just read that Bloomberg has been accussed of sexual harassment by 60 women in 40 different lawsuits. 

Awaiting the link along with the evidence of Sturgeon's deleted emails.

Edited February 17, 2020 by welshbairn

[Pet Jeden]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

According to the EU, they gave Japan 2 lists of regulatory barriers and Japan addressed 75% during negotiations, including agreeing to use EU standards for cars and textiles. 

This is clearly convergence, not our promised divergence. 

Canada doesn't have a free trade agreement. There will still be tarrifs and quotas, including some protected products. The scale of UK trade flows with the EU dwarfs Canada's so they will be less inclined towards being relaxed about any details. But there is some wooly shite about increasing regulatory alignment nonetheless. 

Can't be arsed looking up Korea now, but it didn't take long to establish that you are at it. 

1. Well, of course, goods sold into the EU will need to meet EU standards. Duh! That's not what the EU is demanding. 

2. Canada-EU trade is 98% tariff-free.     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement

3, The scale of EU trade with Japan, Korea and Canada isn't "dwarfed" by the trade with the UK. - it's half.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_European_Union

 

Didn't take long to establish that you are at it

Edited February 17, 2020 by Pet Jeden

[John Lambies Doos]

The EU are the big boys here. Lest we forget

[coprolite]

48 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

1. Well, of course, goods sold into the EU will need to meet EU standards. Duh! That's not what the EU is demanding. 

2. Canada-EU trade is 98% tariff-free.     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement

3, The scale of EU trade with Japan, Korea and Canada isn't "dwarfed" by the trade with the UK. - it's half.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_European_Union

 

Didn't take long to establish that you are at it

1- Japan adopting EU standards is a different matter and is what they agreed to. 

2 -We have 99% of our DNA in common with chimps.

2% of goods (by category count mind, not by value) might be significant? 

Tarrifs are not the whole story on trade. Some markets remain protected. 

3- I said Canada, not the combined figures (which still support my point). This is the sort of strawman and twisting of facts is exactly the sort of mendacity that gave us the cluster f**k in the first place. 

 

Let's also not forget tha the eu needs to manage a free rider moral hazard here. And that we have publicly announced that we will keep what we want and not have any downside because the EU needs our trade. Which was dumb for all sorts of reasons. 

 

[Pet Jeden]

7 minutes ago, coprolite said:

1- Japan adopting EU standards is a different matter and is what they agreed to.  What -  EU standards to apply to goods sold in Japan? 

2 -We have 99% of our DNA in common with chimps. I'm sure you do. I might be 98.9%

2% of goods (by category count mind, not by value) might be significant?  That's a free trade deal in normal parlance.

Tarrifs are not the whole story on trade. Some markets remain protected. No doubt. Let me guess - wine?

3- I said Canada, not the combined figures (which still support my point). This is the sort of strawman and twisting of facts is exactly the sort of mendacity that gave us the cluster f**k in the first place. And I said Japan, Korea and Canada. You chose to single out the smallest and say it was insignificant. This is the sort of strawman and twisting...blah, blah, blah...

 

Let's also not forget tha the eu needs to manage a free rider moral hazard here. And that we have publicly announced that we will keep what we want and not have any downside because the EU needs our trade. Which was dumb for all sorts of reasons. Yes. there's no sense in goading those you hope to persuade. So Liz Truss is a tit. As are plenty in the EU now.

 

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Pat Jeden thinking that the UK is a huge player here [emoji23]

[DiegoDiego]

Why does choosing to leave confer controlling rights to the EU in future? If Mrs (or Mr?) O’Kelly Isley III ever leaves you, are you expecting to control who she goes out with in future and do you expect to have lodging rights at her gaff?
I get that your feelings might be a bit hurt, but you still have to behave like a reasonable grown up. So should the EU.

Truly one of the worst analogies I've read on P&B.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Why does choosing to leave confer controlling rights to the EU in future? If Mrs (or Mr?) O’Kelly Isley III ever leaves you, are you expecting to control who she goes out with in future and do you expect to have lodging rights at her gaff?
I get that your feelings might be a bit hurt, but you still have to behave like a reasonable grown up. So should the EU.

I don't know whether to be flattered or alarmed by this post. But I've changed the locks anyway.

[coprolite]

11 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

 

Yes

Haha

Normal parlance is shite. It's not free trade and is certainly not the tarrif free access that we demanded. 

I don't know about wine. Cheese is on quotas and chickens are out. 

I didn't realise we were doing a joint negotiation. It is disingenuous of us to say we want a deal like 3 different deals so we can cherry pick. 

 

The point is these are not comparable agreements in comparatble situations. 

[Fullerene]

17 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

Why does choosing to leave confer controlling rights to the EU in future? If Mrs (or Mr?) O’Kelly Isley III ever leaves you, are you expecting to control who she goes out with in future and do you expect to have lodging rights at her gaff?

I get that your feelings might be a bit hurt, but you still have to behave like a reasonable grown up. So should the EU.

Has Kelly Isley III got 27 wives?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

17 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

So you accept that they are being unreasonable - but because they are strong it’s alright? Sort of gun boat diplomacy. The international version of “what you gonnae dae aboot it, ya radge”? That kind of thinking belongs back in the colonial era.

And you want to stay close to an organisation that behaves like that? 

Good point.

Independent Scotland it is then.