Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[The_Kincardine]

7 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

I don't know where to start with this utter shitload of lies

Lies?  Take a minute and show what lie I told.

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

Lies?  Take a minute and show what lie I told.

"The Scotland whose soldiers have, voluntarily, been at the vanguard of either the most succesful or the most brutal Empire in history?"

HTH.

[The_Kincardine]

Just now, Baxter Parp said:

"The Scotland whose soldiers have, voluntarily, been at the vanguard of either the most succesful or the most brutal Empire in history?"

HTH.

The Frasers not present in Canada?  The Sutherlands NP at Balaclava?  The Scots Guards NP in Belgium?  The Argylls NP in Aden?  David Stirling not a Scot?  

Quite clearly Scottish soldiers were in the vanguard of Empire.  If you disagree then you have to come up with a way of trying to replace them.

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

The Frasers not present in Canada?  The Sutherlands NP at Balaclava?  The Scots Guards NP in Belgium?  The Argylls NP in Aden?  David Stirling not a Scot?  

Quite clearly Scottish soldiers were in the vanguard of Empire.  If you disagree then you have to come up with a way of trying to replace them.

It seems you have not the first clue as to the size and extent of the British Empire.  For an arch-unionist that seems remiss. For your information it was not four random incidents in time - "it covered 35,500,000 km² (13,700,000 sq mi),^[3] 24% of the Earth's total land area" and was started by the English in the 1500s, long before the Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire

[pandarilla]

"The Scotland whose soldiers have, voluntarily, been at the vanguard of either the most succesful or the most brutal Empire in history?"
HTH.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that statement.

The martial tradition is a part of Scottish history, and denying this is never a good look. Scots were up to their necks in imperial shenanigans.

[The_Kincardine]

8 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

It seems you have not the first clue as to the size and extent of the British Empire.  For an arch-unionist that seems remiss. For your information it was not four random incidents in time - "it covered 35,500,000 km² (13,700,000 sq mi),^[3] 24% of the Earth's total land area" and was started by the English in the 1500s, long before the Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire

Yet came to its height in 1927 and was thoroughly dominated by Scots in influence and polity.

Imagine being so slow-witted as to deny Scotland's influence on Empire. 

[git-intae-thum]

14 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

The Frasers not present in Canada?  The Sutherlands NP at Balaclava?  The Scots Guards NP in Belgium?  The Argylls NP in Aden?  David Stirling not a Scot?  

Quite clearly Scottish soldiers were in the vanguard of Empire.  If you disagree then you have to come up with a way of trying to replace them.

Yeh.......but what a waste.......would have been better if they were fighting Scotland's cause.

[Baxter Parp]

3 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that statement.

The martial tradition is a part of Scottish history, and denying this is never a good look. Scots were up to their necks in imperial shenanigans.

The martial tradition of Scotland existed long before the Union and afterwards largely consisted of English Generals using young Scots, Welsh, Irish and English men as cannon fodder. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Baxter Parp

[Baxter Parp]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Yet came to its height in 1927 and was thoroughly dominated by Scots in influence and polity.

Imagine being so slow-witted as to deny Scotland's influence on Empire. 

Link please.

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

Yeh.......but what a waste.......would have been better if they were fighting Scotland's cause.

They were though.  The Scotland that enriched itself on Empire and whose ships and railway engines were exported world-wide.  The Scotland who built 25% of world ship tonnage on the Clyde to support Empire.  The Scotland which financed industrialised slavery through the like of Coutts Bank.  The Scotland that has ports like Dundee and Glasgow made famous through a combination of slavery and industry - all through Empire.

With a combination of our commitment to slavery, our trade with the Indies, our industrial output and our martial prowess we were, pound for pound, a much more Empire-focussed country than England ever was.

[pandarilla]

The martial tradition of Scotland existed long before the Union and afterwards largely consisted of English Generals using young Scots, Welsh, Irish and English men as cannon fodder. 

I fully agree with your first point (slightly dubious second one).

The fact that Scots were at the forefront of many a good scrap before empire does not detract from the fact that they completely bought into the opportunities afforded by empire. The Scots were also not just the cannon fodder - they administered the empire at pretty much every level (maybe with the exception of the highest elites back in London).

[git-intae-thum]

3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

They were though.  The Scotland that enriched itself on Empire and whose ships and railway engines were exported world-wide.  The Scotland who built 25% of world ship tonnage on the Clyde to support Empire.  The Scotland which financed industrialised slavery through the like of Coutts Bank.  The Scotland that has ports like Dundee and Glasgow made famous through a combination of slavery and industry - all through Empire.

With a combination of our commitment to slavery, our trade with the Indies, our industrial output and our martial prowess we were, pound for pound, a much more Empire-focussed country than England ever was.

Aye....fight they did......take part in some right dubious and despicable doings .......and all to make a tiny percent of the population....uncle tam Eton Highlander types very wealthy.......

Such achievements to be proud of.

Thing is......it's done.....finished.....behind us. That particular unionist part of Scotlands story is shortly for histories dustbin.

[Baxter Parp]

3 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 they administered the empire at pretty much every level

We did, so did every nation in the UK. Not sure what your point is.

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

That particular unionist part of Scotlands story is shortly for histories dustbin.

Maybe yes or maybe no - and I am not bothered either way.  The point is that we participated beyond what would be reasonable in proportion to our size and we enriched ourselves through it.

3 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

We did, so did every nation in the UK. Not sure what your point is.

The point is that Empire was very much a Scottish project and to read empty-headed Yessers like you ty and distance us from it is tragic. 

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

The point is that Empire was very much a Scottish project and to read empty-headed Yessers like you ty and distance us from it is tragic. 

Utter pish. And I know that because, unlike you, I've actually read some books about the British empire.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Baxter Parp

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, Baxter Parp said:

Utter pish. And I know that because, unlike you, I've actually read some books about the British empire.

And probably ripped out the pages that mentioned Scots and chucked them in the bin.  What an absolute simpleton of a Natter you are.

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

And probably ripped out the pages that mentioned Scots and chucked them in the bin.  What an absolute simpleton of a Natter you are.

Please feel free to substantiate your utter bullshit.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, Baxter Parp said:

Please feel free to substantiate your utter bullshit.

Me substantiate how much of a simpleton you are?  No need.  You're doing the job for me.

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

Can't, I've got f**k all.

At last, some honesty.

[git-intae-thum]

6 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Utter pish. And I know that because, unlike you, I've actually read some books about the British empire.

Whilst it is ridiculous to claim empire was a Scottish project, there is no doubt Scots played a significant part throughout the period.

No point denying that.

Of what benefit the whole thing was to Scotland and the Scots is more open to debate.

Absolutely some became seriously wealthy.  However they had to leave Scotland and conform to a very anglicized view of the world to attain this wealth.

Those few Scots who made money through empire, kept it to themselves.....and in many cases their descendants retain it to this day.

We all know the sort. They live in London, but retain the family "home" in Scotland. 2nd son did a subalternship in a Highland regiment. Love a good ceilidh. Go to Burns suppers, but loathe the Scottish accent. Collectively this shower still "own" about 3/4 of Scotland.

Crucially, Scotland, as in the country we live in, did not, by and large share in this wealth. Much of the nation became an isolated backwater and people became our greatest export. 

Scotland's population in comparison to that of England dropped dramatically all through the imperial period. It has never recovered.

We...as in Scots....played our part in empire alright. We....did not really gain.