Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[hehawhehaw]

2 hours ago, Alan Stubbs said:

Reading the news today, I'm genuinely torn between wanting to greet and laugh my cock off at the absolute fucking nick of Britain. What a beamer.

You don't have to stay. I'm sure the Great Britain will hobble on without you. Says a lot about a country that it lets dangleberries shelter and thrive here just like you. I know we should all be begging the likes of you to run the country. Why we bother to get politicians to do it for us is a mystery to me with you on board. I suppose wee burney is doing a great job on the economy, education, policing, NP etc.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

I take it this is a means to finally start killing off the nhs by 2025 then?

[Ira Gaines]

Nicola Sturgeon could pour petrol on billions of pounds and set it on fire, and the SNP policy on the economy would still be sound compared to the Tories.

[McSpreader]

9 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Theresa May announcing foreign doctors can stay up until 2025 before being replaced by home grown ones. That's nice. Also Jeremy Hunt is going to fine junior doctors who go abroad at the end of their training. Also nice.

Good that we are training more doctors . I'm sure it's hard to argue against that . Not convinced that putting a date on replacing foreign doctors is sensible but I agree that replacing them is very sensible as many have poor language skills and are not as well trained as we should expect. Also, I have always been uncomfortable with the sheer arrogance and exploitative nature of denuding second and  third world countries of their health professionals.

I also like the idea of tying in junior doctors to the NHS for a given minimum period of time. ( I would make it 10 years) After all British taxpayers fund a significant part of their training and are therefore entitled to have that investment realised. We should also ban junior doctors from taking industrial action.

 

[speckled tangerine]

51 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

Nicola Sturgeon could pour petrol on billions of pounds and set it on fire, and the SNP policy on the economy would still be sound compared to the Tories.

Bill Drummond could give her pointers on that i'm sure.

[Alan Stubbs]

Ta folks. I still have a bit of saving to do so either way, I'll be seeing how it pans oot. Will give it a few weeks and look into buying some.

1 hour ago, hehawhehaw said:

You don't have to stay. I'm sure the Great Britain will hobble on without you. Says a lot about a country that it lets dangleberries shelter and thrive here just like you. I know we should all be begging the likes of you to run the country. Why we bother to get politicians to do it for us is a mystery to me with you on board. I suppose wee burney is doing a great job on the economy, education, policing, NP etc.

Well, I think that's been established. Always a winning argument though.

I've never heard "wee burney" before on the great job description, I'm guessing you mean our elected First Minister.

 

[Redstarstranraer]

37 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Good that we are training more doctors . I'm sure it's hard to argue against that . Not convinced that putting a date on replacing foreign doctors is sensible but I agree that replacing them is very sensible as many have poor language skills and are not as well trained as we should expect. Also, I have always been uncomfortable with the sheer arrogance and exploitative nature of denuding second and  third world countries of their health professionals.

I also like the idea of tying in junior doctors to the NHS for a given minimum period of time. ( I would make it 10 years) After all British taxpayers fund a significant part of their training and are therefore entitled to have that investment realised. We should also ban junior doctors from taking industrial action.

 

Aye around 37,000 doctors in the NHS (in England alone) have poor language skills and are poorly trained.  Sure that argument holds up to scrutiny.  If they were incompetent or unable to communicate with patients they wouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Not buying this ridiculous concern for the state of third world healthcare that Jeremy Hunt and his acolytes have suddenly discovered either.  It's not that your average Daily Mail reader doesn't like dealing with a doctor with a foreign accent but that they actually are deeply worried about healthcare in the Philippines and Pakistan.  Implausible.

An argument can certainly be made for ensuring newly trained doctors spend a period working for the NHS, but that alone won't either replace the numbers of foreign doctors, the around 10% of doctors about to retire or fill the 10% of positions within the NHS in England that are actually already vacant.  Basically increasing the number of trainees is a bit of a no-brainer; there ought to have been no question this was required.  The problem they have is that this was required just to stay still in terms of staffing, without evening considering the new drive for 'self-sufficiency'.

Banning them from striking is just right-wing drivel.  Let's face it the sort of people who advocate that wouldn't let anyone strike if they had their way.  Usually on the basis that they have a shite job with shite terms and conditions so everybody else should get as bad a deal as them.

Think it's time some folk faced up to the fact that the NHS in England is a shambles.  A shambles that a purge of foreign doctors in the name of some kind of nativist autarky isn't going to help.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Redstarstranraer

[McSpreader]

58 minutes ago, Redstarstranraer said:

Aye around 37,000 doctors in the NHS (in England alone) have poor language skills and are poorly trained.  Sure that argument holds up to scrutiny.  If they were incompetent or unable to communicate with patients they wouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Not buying this ridiculous concern for the state of third world healthcare that Jeremy Hunt and his acolytes have suddenly discovered either.  It's not that your average Daily Mail reader doesn't like dealing with a doctor with a foreign accent but that they actually are deeply worried about healthcare in the Philippines and Pakistan.  Implausible.

An argument can certainly be made for ensuring newly trained doctors spend a period working for the NHS, but that alone won't either replace the numbers of foreign doctors, the around 10% of doctors about to retire or fill the 10% of positions within the NHS in England that are actually already vacant.  Basically increasing the number of trainees is a bit of a no-brainer; there ought to have been no question this was required.  The problem they have is that this was required just to stay still in terms of staffing, without evening considering the new drive for 'self-sufficiency'.

Banning them from striking is just right-wing drivel.  Let's face it the sort of people who advocate that wouldn't let anyone strike if they had their way.  Usually on the basis that they have a shite job with shite terms and conditions so everybody else should get as bad a deal as them.

Think it's time some folk faced up to the fact that the NHS in England is a shambles.  A shambles that a purge of foreign doctors in the name of some kind of nativist autarky isn't going to help.

Calling that right wing drivel is drivel. Soldiers and policemen can't strike and that isn't considered drivel. I'll bet you a pound to pile of sh*t that those thousands of patients in England who had their appointments, procedures and operations cancelled during the last junior doctors tantrum wouldn't call it right wing drivel either. I'm the sort of person who would ban them from striking but fully endorse the rights of people who aren't Soldiers, policeman or junior doctors to organise representation within the workplace and to undertake strike action if necessary so you got that wrong.

I have to say this moronic 'daily mail reader' drivel is tiresome. The readership of that paper is less than 1.5 million. In your world it must be about 24million......therefore your reference to that newspaper is more left-wing drivel.

You're statement that people aren't concerned with the effect on the third world is simply your blinkered opinion because it doesn't fit in with your prejudice. However, I agree that people would rather deal with nurses and doctors that can speak English in a way they understand, especially important for the elderly and those with dementia. That isn't prejudice it's a basic fact of life, however uncomfortable that may be for the middle class, smug, morally self elevated,  limp wristed lefties that form the bulk of the chattering classes.

I agree that training in doctors and nurses has been underfunded for years ....in England and Scotland .....and there are something over 25% of all nurses in Scotland due to retire in the next 10 years....another problem. However, this new training funding is a good thing and a step in the right direction. A reduction in the reliance of foreign trained health workers is also an excellent and long overdue step forward.

Edited October 4, 2016 by McSpreader

[Redstarstranraer]

10 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Calling that right wing drivel is drivel. Soldiers and policemen can't strike and that isn't considered drivel. I'll bet you a pound to pile of sh*t that those thousands of patients in England who had their appointments, procedures and operations cancelled during the last junior doctors tantrum wouldn't call it right wing drivel either. I'm the sort of person who would ban them from striking but fully endorse the rights of people who aren't Soldiers, policeman or junior doctors to organise representation within the workplace and to undertake strike action if necessary so you got that wrong.

 

Why just junior doctors then?  Why not anyone who works for the NHS?  It is absolute right wing drivel.  NHS staff aren't the slaves of the public, and shouldn't have their rights curtailed or forced to accept changes to their terms and conditions without having the right to industrial action that other workers enjoy.  The fact that soldiers and policemen can't strike is neither here nor there.  By that logic nobody should have the right to strike.  Calling their dispute a 'tantrum' is just ridiculous; if they imposed a new contract on you not to your liking you wouldn't term any dissatisfaction with it a 'tantrum'.  You don't speak for the patients who had appointments, procedures or operations cancelled and don't know whether or not they'd back the idea of such action at all.  Funnily enough most media reports, including from outlets not overly sympathetic to industrial action, showed high levels of public support for the junior doctors' action.  And don't come back with the 'they have a responsibility for patient safety' pish as during the dispute cover for emergency and critical care was provided.  

15 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I have to say this moronic 'daily mail reader' drivel is tiresome. The readership of that paper is less than 1.5 million. In your world it must be about 24million......therefore your reference to that newspaper is more left-wing drivel.

I fully accept that you may have developed your moronic views without having ever read the Daily Mail.  It is however a newspaper that represents the worldview (alongside the Express and Telegraph) of a significant section of the British public.

 

17 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

You're statement that people aren't concerned with the effect on the third world is simply your blinkered opinion because it doesn't fit in with your prejudice.

Excuse me for finding your sudden po-faced patronising concern about the third world as unconvincing as that of Jeremy Hunt.  Especially in the context of it being wheeled out now by the same sort of folk who want the foreign aid budget slashed as 'charity begins at home'.

19 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

However, I agree that people would rather deal with nurses and doctors that can speak English in a way they understand, especially important for the elderly and those with dementia. That isn't prejudice it's a basic fact of life, however uncomfortable that may be for the middle class, smug, morally self elevated,  limp wristed lefties that form the bulk of the chattering classes.

I've already made it clear that I find it ridiculous that more than 35,000 doctors are employed by the NHS who can't speak understandable English.  To get employment in the NHS you have to possess a working knowledge of English.  That's a basic fact of life, however uncomfortable it might be for the middle class, smug, pompous swivel eyed loons that pretend to care about what goes on in the third world when basically they just don't like foreigners.

 

[McSpreader]

1 hour ago, Redstarstranraer said:

Why just junior doctors then?  Why not anyone who works for the NHS?  It is absolute right wing drivel.  NHS staff aren't the slaves of the public, and shouldn't have their rights curtailed or forced to accept changes to their terms and conditions without having the right to industrial action that other workers enjoy.  The fact that soldiers and policemen can't strike is neither here nor there.  By that logic nobody should have the right to strike.  Calling their dispute a 'tantrum' is just ridiculous; if they imposed a new contract on you not to your liking you wouldn't term any dissatisfaction with it a 'tantrum'.  You don't speak for the patients who had appointments, procedures or operations cancelled and don't know whether or not they'd back the idea of such action at all.  Funnily enough most media reports, including from outlets not overly sympathetic to industrial action, showed high levels of public support for the junior doctors' action.  And don't come back with the 'they have a responsibility for patient safety' pish as during the dispute cover for emergency and critical care was provided.  

I don't quite know how you equate not being allowed to take strike action to slavery. That's emotive pish!

I think tantrum is the perfect word for  a very well paid group of employees who have been offered a massive pay rise but want even more money for working at the weekend. It's utter bollocks. I'm self employed and I don't get extra pay for working at the weekend so why should they?  People get ill 7 days a week so the NHS should be operational 7 days a week but Junior doctors want their cake and to eat it all paid for by the taxpayer. What is pish is their alleged concern for patient safety. Total red herring. What about the care and safety of those whose appointments, procedures and operations were cancelled because junior doctors reserve the right to go on the lash on the weekend?

As for the new contract, they have agreed to 99% of it and what you don't realise is that any employer can legally impose a new contract on it's employees at any time so long as they are involved in a consultation exercise. I believe that has been done in this case.

1 hour ago, Redstarstranraer said:

I fully accept that you may have developed your moronic views without having ever read the Daily Mail.  It is however a newspaper that represents the worldview (alongside the Express and Telegraph) of a significant section of the British public.

Of course, if someone disagrees with your opinion they are moronic.....of course!

 

Excuse me for finding your sudden po-faced patronising concern about the third world as unconvincing as that of Jeremy Hunt.  Especially in the context of it being wheeled out now by the same sort of folk who want the foreign aid budget slashed as 'charity begins at home'.

You are very good at apportioning opinions on people to suit your prejudice. You make it sound as if the 'foreign aid budget' is some sort of sacred cow that is so venerated and holy  that it would be a blasphemy to even discuss it.  It's taxpayers money and we have a right to know how it's being used. The fact that the vast majority of it is not used as aid but as a sweetener to facilitate our Gov't's foreign policy preferences may not matter to you but it does to many others. Foreign aid is sent to countries with space programmes ffs. and to tax havens.........Its a £14 billion a year budget but I guess to someone like you who is frightened of his own shadow, we daren't question it in case we upset a foreigner, god forbid.

I've already made it clear that I find it ridiculous that more than 35,000 doctors are employed by the NHS who can't speak understandable English.  To get employment in the NHS you have to possess a working knowledge of English.  That's a basic fact of life, however uncomfortable it might be for the middle class, smug, pompous swivel eyed loons that pretend to care about what goes on in the third world when basically they just don't like foreigners.

Again , confusing your own prejudices with facts.  Everyone except you is a xenophobe, right? Or maybe we just don't see foreigners as some special, privileged group and don't feel it necessary to imbibe them with the same god like status that you do. 

And, of course every foreign health worker is perfect, speaks amazing English, has fantastically transferable skills, is not problematical in any way, is far better than any British worker and has sunshine radiating from his/her arsehole.

 

 

[Redstarstranraer]

1 minute ago, McSpreader said:

I don't quite know how you equate not being allowed to take strike action to slavery. That's emotive pish!

I think tantrum is the perfect word for  a very well paid group of employees who have been offered a massive pay rise but want even more money for working at the weekend. It's utter bollocks. I'm self employed and I don't get extra pay for working at the weekend so why should they?  People get ill 7 days a week so the NHS should be operational 7 days a week but Junior doctors want their cake and to eat it all paid for by the taxpayer. What is pish is their alleged concern for patient safety. Total red herring. What about the care and safety of those whose appointments, procedures and operations were cancelled because junior doctors reserve the right to go on the lash on the weekend?

As for the new contract, they have agreed to 99% of it and what you don't realise is that any employer can legally impose a new contract on it's employees at any time so long as they are involved in a consultation exercise. I believe that has been done in this case.

 

And there we have it, as predicted.

The NHS is operational 7 days a week, in case you haven't noticed.  Don't see many hospitals shut on a Sunday.  Now you're doling out the emotive pish right left and centre, invoking poor benighted patients sacrificed at the altar of doctors getting hammered at the weekend.  Junior doctors have every right to time off like any other employee, if the Westminster government want to provide the same levels of service across the full week they should resource it properly, not try to bully and cajole NHS staff into working longer hours or to take away weekend rates of pay they've enjoyed for years.  Routine procedures were cancelled during the strike, not life-saving care, so patient safety wasn't compromised.  But you know that and are just railing at them because they have better terms and conditions than you do, as you've admitted yourself.

Don't tell me what I do or don't realise.

8 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Of course, if someone disagrees with your opinion they are moronic.....of course!

 

2 hours ago, McSpreader said:

I have to say this moronic 'daily mail reader' drivel is tiresome

Ahem.

11 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

You are very good at apportioning opinions on people to suit your prejudice. You make it sound as if the 'foreign aid budget' is some sort of sacred cow that is so venerated and holy  that it would be a blasphemy to even discuss it.  It's taxpayers money and we have a right to know how it's being used. The fact that the vast majority of it is not used as aid but as a sweetener to facilitate our Gov't's foreign policy preferences may not matter to you but it does to many others. Foreign aid is sent to countries with space programmes ffs. and to tax havens.........Its a £14 billion a year budget but I guess to someone like you who is frightened of his own shadow, we daren't question it in case we upset a foreigner, god forbid.

Twice now you've accused me of being 'prejudiced' for daring to have an opinion other than yours.  I raised the sodding foreign aid budget but of course I'm too scared to discuss it.    What it is or isn't spent on actually isn't at issue here, it's the MORONIC insistence of folk like you that all this money is pissed away and therefore shouldn't be spent rather than attempting to redirect it to better ends.  Whilst at the very same fucking time insisting you want foreign doctors out of the NHS (the very same doctors who are a bit suspect in quality terms apparently) to benefit these same third world countries.  I'm pointing out how your concern for international development rings false.  And indeed the mask has slipped already.

What's with all this 'frightened of your own shadow' and 'limp wristed' pish?    You sound like a real internet hard man.

18 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Again , confusing your own prejudices with facts.  Everyone except you is a xenophobe, right? Or maybe we just don't see foreigners as some special, privileged group and don't feel it necessary to imbibe them with the same god like status that you do. 

And, of course every foreign health worker is perfect, speaks amazing English, has fantastically transferable skills, is not problematical in any way, is far better than any British worker and has sunshine radiating from his/her arsehole.

Again bringing out this ridiculous prejudice nonsense.  Not everyone except me is a xenophobe, only those like you who out themselves as such.  I don't see foreigners as a special privileged group, or as 'gods', I just see them as no better or worse than British workers.  I'm not claiming they're perfect, just not inferior, as you seem to be claiming.

You really are one of the worst posters on this forum.  You seem a petty minded, jealous, spiteful, xenophobic would-be bully that likes to dole out the insults but can't take them back, and hilariously claims everyone who doesn't agree with you is 'prejudiced'.  

[WILLIEA]

1 hour ago, Redstarstranraer said:

 

I've already made it clear that I find it ridiculous that more than 35,000 doctors are employed by the NHS who can't speak understandable English.  To get employment in the NHS you have to possess a working knowledge of English.  That's a basic fact of life, however uncomfortable it might be for the middle class, smug, pompous swivel eyed loons that pretend to care about what goes on in the third world when basically they just don't like foreigners.

 

This bit here. There are stringent language tests in place but inevitably in any large enterprise some mistakes will slip through. There have been cases of NHS staff with poor language skills causing distress to patients, but it is a minuscule %.

What is disgusting and despicable in the scenario we have now is the thousands of NHS staff who have been working so hard and contributing so much to this country being made to feel unwelcome and insecure. A disgraceful and shameful state of affairs.

As for training enough home grown NHS staff by 2025! Not a fart in a hurricanes chance.

( This from one who was pretty much a Tory until 23rd June )

[Terry_Tibbs]

5 minutes ago, WILLIEA said:

( This from one who was pretty much a Tory until 23rd June )

What a numpty lol.

[Redstarstranraer]

2 minutes ago, WILLIEA said:

This bit here. There are stringent language tests in place but inevitably in any large enterprise some mistakes will slip through. There have been cases of NHS staff with poor language skills causing distress to patients, but it is a minuscule %.

What is disgusting and despicable in the scenario we have now is the thousands of NHS staff who have been working so hard and contributing so much to this country being made to feel unwelcome and insecure. A disgraceful and shameful state of affairs.

As for training enough home grown NHS staff by 2025! Not a fart in a hurricanes chance.

( This from one who was pretty much a Tory until 23rd June )

Yes it's true as you say a minuscule number of foreign doctors have been disciplined for having poor English skills.  Worth noting that, unlike some folk seem to think, the NHS does actually have testing in place to try and filter out those doctors, including from other EU countries, who have inadequate English language skills.  I haven't the exact figures to hand but something like 40% of applicants from the EU are knocked back on this basis, so the idea that medics with an unworkable command of the language are rife in the system is just untrue.

Of course making sure a foreign doctor has adequate knowledge of English is just common sense that nobody would question, not even limp-wristed foreigner lovers.

Worrying that the government in Westminster think this an appropriate way to treat highly-skilled, valuable workers who are unquestionably vital to the safe running of our NHS and will be for the foreseeable future seeing as there simply is no way they can be replaced in anything like the proposed timescale.  God knows what their attitude will be to other migrant workers on this evidence.

[Terry_Tibbs]

7 minutes ago, Redstarstranraer said:

Yes it's true as you say a minuscule number of foreign doctors have been disciplined for having poor English skills.  Worth noting that, unlike some folk seem to think, the NHS does actually have testing in place to try and filter out those doctors, including from other EU countries, who have inadequate English language skills.  I haven't the exact figures to hand but something like 40% of applicants from the EU are knocked back on this basis, so the idea that medics with an unworkable command of the language are rife in the system is just untrue.

Of course making sure a foreign doctor has adequate knowledge of English is just common sense that nobody would question, not even limp-wristed foreigner lovers.

Worrying that the government in Westminster think this an appropriate way to treat highly-skilled, valuable workers who are unquestionably vital to the safe running of our NHS and will be for the foreseeable future seeing as there simply is no way they can be replaced in anything like the proposed timescale.  God knows what their attitude will be to other migrant workers on this evidence.

You're forgetting the fact it's not fair to plunder poorer countries for their doctors and nurses that they invested in. Why not train up a British citizen to do the job? If our education system isn't capable of producing the doctors and nurses we require there is something wrong.

[NotThePars]

Jeremy Hunt confirming that EU migrants are bargaining chips for the Tory government. Bet the Lexit crowd are still sure escaping the stifling EU bureaucracy was a good idea.

[Michael W]

Bring back David Cameron at once. 

[Redstarstranraer]

10 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

You're forgetting the fact it's not fair to plunder poorer countries for their doctors and nurses that they invested in. Why not train up a British citizen to do the job? If our education system isn't capable of producing the doctors and nurses we require there is something wrong.

You're forgetting the quite aside from the proposed removal of foreign staff the NHS in England, where these changes are mooted, can't apparently fill 10% of its vacancies as things stand and are also facing the prospect of around 10% of the doctors they do have retiring within 5 years.  Training to be a doctor takes a minimum of about 10 years and Jeremy Hunt is only proposing to start training an extra 1500 a year by 2018.

It isn't that British citizens aren't capable of training to be a doctor it's that the proposals brought forward won't train enough new doctors quickly enough for the NHS to be 'self-sufficient' in terms of producing doctors for decades, if at all.  I've already said in earlier posts I have nothing against training more doctors here, but getting rid of foreign doctors will exacerbate a shortage that already exists and is being done for purely ideological reasons, not practical ones.

In that context I struggle to believe the 'train up our own' brigade would be happy sending these medics back to their own countries and creating a recruitment crisis within the health service out of genuine concern for the state of the third world's healthcare situation.

And this concern really doesn't wash with the large numbers of doctors who work here who come from EU countries just as prosperous as our own.

[Terry_Tibbs]

3 minutes ago, Redstarstranraer said:

You're forgetting the quite aside from the proposed removal of foreign staff the NHS in England, where these changes are mooted, can't apparently fill 10% of its vacancies as things stand and are also facing the prospect of around 10% of the doctors they do have retiring within 5 years.  Training to be a doctor takes a minimum of about 10 years and Jeremy Hunt is only proposing to start training an extra 1500 a year by 2018.

It isn't that British citizens aren't capable of training to be a doctor it's that the proposals brought forward won't train enough new doctors quickly enough for the NHS to be 'self-sufficient' in terms of producing doctors for decades, if at all.  I've already said in earlier posts I have nothing against training more doctors here, but getting rid of foreign doctors will exacerbate a shortage that already exists and is being done for purely ideological reasons, not practical ones.

In that context I struggle to believe the 'train up our own' brigade would be happy sending these medics back to their own countries and creating a recruitment crisis within the health service out of genuine concern for the state of the third world's healthcare situation.

And this concern really doesn't wash with the large numbers of doctors who work here who come from EU countries just as prosperous as our own.

What is your source for foreign NHS staff being removed from their jobs and the country? As far as i'm aware the policy is to recruit fewer overseas doctors, in the future, not to ditch the ones who are already here.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Terry_Tibbs

[williemillersmoustache]

Lots more baby doctors is good, but won't solve the massive gaps in specialisms which were opened due to the slashing of training places further up the line.  It will take generations of recruiting from the world of medicine to plug those gaps*, even with the numbers of fresh graduates proposed. Moving on a grade, finding there are no places in the UK but there are in Australia where it's hot and birds wear f**k all, was going on for ages even before the contract shenanigans drove yet more of our own plucky British doctors away

Even more worrying and almost unbelievable is the "name and shame" of companies that employ foreign workers. What the actual f**k is that?

Also, and this seems like a minor point in the face of such arrant racism and the clear attempt on the life of the NHS, is that the NHS sharing international expertise has been enormously beneficial to us as a nation, to our medics, to global medicine in general, to the foreign medics that have come here to practice and to the countries the vast majority of them return to. Making that exchange of talent and best practice harder is fucking bananas.
 

 

*And there will always be gaps, because not many folk, including freaks of nature like Doctors want to be an ass-doctor in Wick.

Edited October 4, 2016 by williemillersmoustache