Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Ministers instruct civil servants on every aspect of governing.

As it stands there is no clear path to a second referendum unless May performs a huge 180 and abandons the manifesto she was elected on.

There's a big remain majority in the Commons, all they have to do is vote together.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

A second vote could work, positioned as a definitive choice now the circumstances and consequences appear to be much clearer, but can the whole process be completed before the end of March? Do we put the brakes on to accommodate a new timescale will all the extended chaos and uncertainty that will ensue, plus the distinct possibility of ANOTHER general election? If the Leave vote wins again, where then? If the result is overturned, will the Government (whoever is in power) be compelled to run a rubber match?

It would be impossible to get done in that timescale - the only way it could is if Article 50 were temporarily extended or revoked. The legal ruling on the latter might clarify matters.

[btb]

…………...and the Winner of The Liar, Liar, Pants On Fire Award for 2018 goes to Andrea Leadsom for

Quote

'I wouldn't describe myself as a plotter'

Edited November 17, 2018 by btb

[Cerberus]

f**k the EU.
When’s that trade deal with Uzbekistan kicking in?

[John Lambies Doos]

Jack has no chance with a bigot for a granda.

[welshbairn]

My latest theory about the DUP is that they deliberately engineered the collapse of Stormont so there would be no other voice from NI about their hugely unpopular move of backing Brexit, and their aim is to call a halt to increasing cooperation with the South, preferably with a hard border.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

My latest theory about the DUP is that they deliberately engineered the collapse of Stormont so there would be no other voice from NI about their hugely unpopular move of backing Brexit, and their aim is to call a halt to increasing cooperation with the South, preferably with a hard border.

Have a look at Craig Murray's website where he writes about this, and references a historic and full-blooded article from Gove about NI politics.
Murray claims that one of the cherished aims of the Brexiteers has been to smash the GFA and return NI to the structures of the 1960's. Bad enough as this would be, they seem to know hee-haw of the demographics of NI.
I think it's safe to assume that Holyrood will be right in their crosshairs too.

[welshbairn]

20 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Have a look at Craig Murray's website where he writes about this, and references a historic and full-blooded article from Gove about NI politics.
Murray claims that one of the cherished aims of the Brexiteers has been to smash the GFA and return NI to the structures of the 1960's. Bad enough as this would be, they seem to know hee-haw of the demographics of NI.
I think it's safe to assume that Holyrood will be right in their crosshairs too.

The problem I have with Murray is that he'll write a well argued piece then ruin it with unproven hyperbole for clickbait. What Gove wrote when he was a hack in 2000 does not prove it's the current Government's driving motive.

Quote

It is not possible to understand the current state of play in Brexit negotiations, without understanding that those effectively driving the Tory Party position do not view a hard border with Ireland as undesirable. They view it as a vital achievement en route to rolling back power sharing and all the affirmative measures which brought peace to Northern Ireland, in an affirmation of the glory and power of unionism.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/11/the-price-of-peace/

Edited November 17, 2018 by welshbairn

[O'Kelly Isley III]

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/11/the-price-of-peace/

I know what you mean about Murray, but you are being unduly charitable to Gove; also I was suggesting that the views on NI were those of the Brexit hardliners, not the Tory Government per se. However, those who have viewed Brext as a right-wing coup may not be indulging in hyperbole

[LongTimeLurker]

38 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

My latest theory about the DUP is that they deliberately engineered the collapse of Stormont ....

Only problem with that is that it was SF that collapsed Stormont after the cash for ash thing and have an abstentionist policy at Westminster that currently hands Ulster Unionism a net 11 seat advantage over Irish Republicanism that otherwise would only be 4. Think that most Brexiteers and Remainers genuinely didn't grasp that Brexit would mean a hard border with the RoI when the Referendum was happening so the issue was never highlighted to the extent that it should have been and that has sleepwalked things into the current predicament.

[welshbairn]

16 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

26 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/11/the-price-of-peace/

I know what you mean about Murray, but you are being unduly charitable to Gove; also I was suggesting that the views on NI were those of the Brexit hardliners, not the Tory Government per se. However, those who have viewed Brext as a right-wing coup may not be indulging in hyperbole

True. Getting shot of these pesky employee rights would be a boon.

P.S. Gove is an duplicitous hardcore right wing c**t, and probably still believes what he wrote in 2000. Doesn't mean it's driving May though.

Edited November 17, 2018 by welshbairn

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Only problem with that is that it was SF that collapsed Stormont after the cash for ash thing and have an abstentionist policy at Westminster that currently hands Ulster Unionism a net 11 seat advantage over Irish Republicanism that otherwise would only be 4. Think that most Brexiteers and Remainers genuinely didn't grasp that Brexit would mean a hard border with the RoI when the Referendum was happening so the issue was never highlighted to the extent that it should have been and that has sleepwalked things into the current predicament.

The DUP could restore Stormont for a lot less money than was lost/stolen in cash for ash by allowing Irish language translation. Now they're blocking a soft Brexit option because it might give NI better trade options than rUK. I can only think they're after an economically destructive but staunch hard border.

[Fullerene]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

My latest theory about the DUP is that they deliberately engineered the collapse of Stormont so there would be no other voice from NI about their hugely unpopular move of backing Brexit, and their aim is to call a halt to increasing cooperation with the South, preferably with a hard border.

 

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

My latest theory about the DUP is that they deliberately engineered the collapse of Stormont so there would be no other voice from NI about their hugely unpopular move of backing Brexit, and their aim is to call a halt to increasing cooperation with the South, preferably with a hard border.

I think a simpler explanation is the zero sum approach.  If the other side are in any way happy then something must be going wrong.

Incredibly short-sighted.  If anything was kicking a United Ireland into the long grass - it was the GFA.

Never mind.  These are the same people who think the Giant's Causeway is only a few thousand years old.  How do you argue with people like that?

[LongTimeLurker]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

...I can only think they're after an economically destructive but staunch hard border.

Here's what Ian jr had to say on RTE about this during the referendum:

Can remember the words "you absolute cretin" entering my thoughts when I first watched this, because he didn't grasp it was the EU that would dictate to the RoI the terms of the outer border of its customs union rather than vice versa.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Here's what Ian jr had to say on RTE about this during the referendum:

Can remember the words "you absolute cretin" entering my thoughts when I first watched this, because he didn't grasp it was the EU that would dictate to the RoI the terms of the outer border of its customs union rather than vice versa.

He would have hardly have said "f**k the costs, f**k the economy, we want a hard border.", during the campaign. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by welshbairn

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

The UK government asking the Supreme court to overrule the court of session is an interesting development, it looks like the UK government would seek to undermine the Scottish legal system rather than respect the act of union.

[LongTimeLurker]

14 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

He would have hardly have said "f**k the costs, f**k the economy, we want a hard border.", during the campaign. 

The assumption that underpins the nonchalant attitude from Ian Jr in that clip was that the RoI and EU would prioritize still having a soft RoI:NI border over full RoI integration with the overall EU project in a Common Travel Area vs Schengen sort of way. In reality the EU was never going to make leaving easy for any of its members given the precedent it potentially sets elsewhere and views any harm that causes to the RoI economically (as well as to the UK) as collateral damage. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by LongTimeLurker

[Fullerene]

22 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

He would have hardly have said "f**k the costs, f**k the economy, we want a hard border.", during the campaign. 

Yes - he could.

"Ulster says No to costs!"

"Ulster says No to the economy!"

"Ulster says No to anything but a hard border!"

[Antlion]

I see Boris is apparently angry at being photographed leaving a dinner with Farage at an exclusive Mayfair restaurant. I wonder what those two men-of-the-people were discussing there - how to stick it to the metropolitan elite, no doubt. 

[welshbairn]

15 minutes ago, Antlion said:

I see Boris is apparently angry at being photographed leaving a dinner with Farage at an exclusive Mayfair restaurant. I wonder what those two men-of-the-people were discussing there - how to stick it to the metropolitan elite, no doubt. 

If you want a private meeting it can't be that hard to set up. Building up his the man for the right image imo.