Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[jakedee]

I can understand Corbyn’s stance without agreeing with it.
His position is the Tories and a Tory government got us into this mess I’ll back off whilst they make a complete c**t of it.
Electorally it may be astute, politically it ain’t because eventually he will need to offer an alternative.
It’s funny that given all the criticism of Corbyn/Labour little is being asked of the SNP.  Sturgeon’s position could be clearer.
I say that as an SNP member who tries to take a balance view.
 
 

Sturgeons position couldn't be clearer, remaining the customs union and free trade area, and give the Scottish Parliament control over free movement. In other words remain in the EU. Exactly what the people she represents voted for.
This is why very little is asked of her from the msm, no headlines can be made from a clear viewpoint

[LongTimeLurker]

3 minutes ago, btb said:

It should be bringing down the government.

There was a golden opportunity for that only a couple of months ago and a handful of extremist pro-Leave Labour rebels saved the day for Theresa May with no negative repercussions on their membership of the Labour party. As long as the DUP keep backing Theresa May and Rees Mogg and co see the status quo on Tory leadership leading to no deal exit in the aftermath of Salzburg, the only people that can topple Theresa May are Remainer Tory MPs and given it would be career suicide on their part I wouldn't hold my breath on that outcome. You don't hear much from Ruth Davidson any more about Scottish Tory MPs pushing a soft Brexit agenda, for example, because they know their gains from the SNP were derived in part from a pro-Leave swing away from the SNP in rural and fishing areas and they are more concerned about their careers than anything else in all of this. 

Corbyn can posture about elections and people's votes at this point to keep his rank and file happy but if he knows there is no way to defeat Theresa May on a confidence motion all he has to do now is let the clock run down at this point if hard Brexit is what he really wants and unfortunately his actions over the last couple of years strongly suggest it might be.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, jakedee said:

Sturgeons position couldn't be clearer, remaining the customs union and free trade area, and give the Scottish Parliament control over free movement. In other words remain in the EU. Exactly what the people she represents voted for.
This is why very little is asked of her from the msm, no headlines can be made from a clear viewpoint

That’s a ‘get too’ position.  Decisions have to be taken at Westminster to get there.  Will the SNP support a second referendum?

In the age of social media she doesn’t need the MSM to make the SNP’s position clear on a second referendum.

 

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There was a golden opportunity for that only a couple of months ago and a handful of extremist pro-Leave Labour rebels saved the day for Theresa May with no negative repercussions on their membership of the Labour party. As long as the DUP keep backing Theresa May and Rees Mogg and co see the status quo on Tory leadership leading to no deal exit in the aftermath of Salzburg, the only people that can topple Theresa May are Remainer Tory MPs and given it would be career suicide on their part I wouldn't hold my breath on that outcome. You don't hear much from Ruth Davidson any more about Scottish Tory MPs pushing a soft Brexit agenda, for example, because they know their gains from the SNP were derived in part from a pro-Leave swing away from the SNP in rural and fishing areas and they are more concerned about their careers than anything else in all of this. 

Corbyn can posture about elections and people's votes at this point to keep his rank and file happy but if he knows there is no way to defeat Theresa May on a confidence motion all he has to do now is let the clock run down at this point if hard Brexit is what he really wants and unfortunately his actions over the last couple of years strongly suggest it might be.

I agree with you re: Hoey, Fields, etc.  But if Corbyn had tried to kick them out he would have been castigated and it would have dominated the news for weeks.

The right wing Labour MPs will do all they can to discredit Corbyn regardless of its effect on the Labour Party as a whole.

 

 

[dorlomin]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/23/dominic-raab-rules-out-snap-general-election-to-save-mays-brexit-plan

 

Seems May is threatening her MPs with an election if they do not back he Chequers plan. I assume its "me or Corbyn" chat. 

[jakedee]

That’s a ‘get too’ position.  Decisions have to be taken at Westminster to get there.  Will the SNP support a second referendum?
In the age of social media she doesn’t need the MSM to make the SNP’s position clear on a second referendum.
 

She made her position on a 2nd referendum quite clear in an answer to Willie Rennie at FMQ's

[topcat(The most tip top)]

[Granny Danger]

Just now, jakedee said:

15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

That’s a ‘get too’ position.  Decisions have to be taken at Westminster to get there.  Will the SNP support a second referendum?
In the age of social media she doesn’t need the MSM to make the SNP’s position clear on a second referendum.
 

She made her position on a 2nd referendum quite clear in an answer to Willie Rennie at FMQ's

What did she say Willie?

 

[dorlomin]

9 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

.  But if Corbyn had tried to kick them out he would have been castigated

They broke no PLP rules to kick them out. You can break a whip as Corbyn did every other Labour whipped vote. So you are saying he did not do something he could not do because of his strategic thinking or some other shyte?

He shat it on the A50 vote when he could have forced far more concessions on the negotiations. Its comical to see people trying to defend his pro Brexit stance. 

1 minute ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Tick tock

[jakedee]

What did she say Willie?
 

She would get behind a 2nd referendum if a guarantee could be given that if Scotland again voted remain,the powers that would enable that,if the rest of the UK again voted leave,were devolved. I know that is not going to happen,but it is a clear position to take.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

They broke no PLP rules to kick them out. You can break a whip as Corbyn did every other Labour whipped vote. So you are saying he did not do something he could not do because of his strategic thinking or some other shyte?

He shat it on the A50 vote when he could have forced far more concessions on the negotiations. Its comical to see people trying to defend his pro Brexit stance. 

Tick tock

I’m not trying to defend Corbyn’s Brexit stance; I am conscious that the Labour Party is the key player on avoiding a hard Brexit and I am hoping they do the right thing.

 

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, jakedee said:

5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

What did she say Willie?
 

She would get behind a 2nd referendum if a guarantee could be given that if Scotland again voted remain,the powers that would enable that,if the rest of the UK again voted leave,were devolved. I know that is not going to happen,but it is a clear position to take.

No it’s an unrealistic position to take.  Does that mean if she is given no such guarantee then she will not support a second referendum? 

 

[jakedee]

No it’s an unrealistic position to take.  Does that mean if she is given no such guarantee then she will not support a second referendum? 
 

Correct

[btb]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There was a golden opportunity for that only a couple of months ago and a handful of extremist pro-Leave Labour rebels saved the day for Theresa May with no negative repercussions on their membership of the Labour party. As long as the DUP keep backing Theresa May and Rees Mogg and co see the status quo on Tory leadership leading to no deal exit in the aftermath of Salzburg, the only people that can topple Theresa May are Remainer Tory MPs and given it would be career suicide on their part I wouldn't hold my breath on that outcome. You don't hear much from Ruth Davidson any more about Scottish Tory MPs pushing a soft Brexit agenda, for example, because they know their gains from the SNP were derived in part from a pro-Leave swing away from the SNP in rural and fishing areas and they are more concerned about their careers than anything else in all of this. 

Corbyn can posture about elections and people's votes at this point to keep his rank and file happy but if he knows there is no way to defeat Theresa May on a confidence motion all he has to do now is let the clock run down at this point if hard Brexit is what he really wants and unfortunately his actions over the last couple of years strongly suggest it might be.

Much of this is true but the half-hearted nature of Corbyn's opposition to Brexit is the main reason for Mays government being able to survive so long when it's completely split on it's one real policy.

 

I kinda suspect Corbyn would have liked to line up alongside Field & Hoey back in July but as Leader of the Opposition he's got one job - bringing the government. down. Even Dennis Skinner saw the prize was in forcing a No Confidence vote.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, jakedee said:

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

No it’s an unrealistic position to take.  Does that mean if she is given no such guarantee then she will not support a second referendum? 
 

Correct

Politically and morally wrong and electorally suicidal.

FWIW if it came down to the wire I reckon the SNP will support a second referendum without any guarantees.    

[jakedee]

Politically and morally wrong and electorally suicidal.
FWIW if it came down to the wire I reckon the SNP will support a second referendum without any guarantees.    

It's only unrealistic because of the route May has decided to take. If a "soft brexit" was the path that was being followed, then there would be no argument. This is all down to the UK's pandering to the right wing nut jobs in her party and their interpretation of "leave means leave".

[Frankie S]

Labour pussyfooting around the issue as usual, doing their best to avoid alienating the racists amongst their own support, so not surprised we’re starting to hear talk of a restricted second vote (leave with whatever kind of half-arsed compromise deal can be cobbled together at the last minute,  or leave with no deal) with no remain in the EU option on the ballot, as Len McCluskey has just advocated.

Latest

 

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Frankie S

[dorlomin]

Quote

Labour’s next UK manifesto will include a commitment to oppose a second independence referendum for Scotland, finally clarifying the party’s stance on the issue.

Oh you Corbyn fans will be loving this. 

[Bairnardo]

People cant be asked to vote on a deal vs no deal scenario. Its a waste of time. The understanding of what it all means is way over everyones head. The details of trade agreements etc is relevant to about 0.0001% of the population probably.

[John Lambies Doos]

Labour’s next UK manifesto will include a commitment to oppose a second independence referendum for Scotland, finally clarifying the party’s stance on the issue.

Oh you Corbyn fans will be loving this. 
A c**t of a man