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John Lambies Doos

Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

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The most important lie was by the Prime Minister and his subsequent volte-face has amplified the uncertainty around leaving the EU.

https://www.ft.com/content/54f5f6c5-35ee-3c6e-927c-131cec69d88b



I forgot Cameron came out with a few whoppers.

Just need to see what happens. I do believe Britain needs to leave the EU or else the will of the people hasn't been respected.

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2 hours ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

Just like our very own referendum, we need to accept the result and deal with the consequences. I still maintain Scotland blew it in 2014 and the EU referendum proves it but we just need to hope the country (Scotland, don't care about the rest now, although there is the knock on effect) doesn't suffer too much for it. 

Both campaigns were a farce but if people actually believed the likes of Farage and Boris (where the f'ck are these two by the way?) then we deserve all we get.

 

Can I argue, that the Scottish referendum result meant nothing changed? I accept that if Yes won then there would have been a plan in place to go independent.

But with Brexit, everything changes because with the result. By all means correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

 

 

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Also can this court case around the legalities of Brexit do anything to stop Article 50 being invoked?

Or is this court case just the judicinal equivalent of pissing into the wind?

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Whats your point?

I was just saying what I think it might pan out like.


My point is that if you work and use products, then I think (again, like you I am just saying how I think it will pan out) that you may be more than a little worse off.

Right now much of this legislation comes from the EU, and would need to be replaced with like for like UK law which I don't see the Conservatives being too keen on implementing.

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2 minutes ago, Dingus son of Dork said:

 


My point is that if you work and use products, then I think (again, like you I am just saying how I think it will pan out) that you may be more than a little worse off.

Right now much of this legislation comes from the EU, and would need to be replaced with like for like UK law which I don't see the Conservatives being too keen on implementing.

 

More power to the Tories and they'll love the fact that they can re-write some of the rules. Throw in a current weak opposition and it looks like they'll get away with it.

The rules will favour the rich and be unfavourable to the working classes which is standard practice.

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1 hour ago, zidane's child said:

Also can this court case around the legalities of Brexit do anything to stop Article 50 being invoked?

Or is this court case just the judicinal equivalent of pissing into the wind?

In itself, no. 

If they decide that the MPs need to vote, it can be blocked if MPs choose to prevent Art.50 being invoked. 

The crux of the issue is that the referendum was not legally binding - it can be ignored if Parliament so chooses. Doing so would however create its own set of problems...

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3 minutes ago, Michael W said:

In itself, no. 

If they decide that the MPs need to vote, it can be blocked if MPs choose to prevent Art.50 being invoked. 

The crux of the issue is that the referendum was not legally binding - it can be ignored if Parliament so chooses. Doing so would however create its own set of problems...

I would rather MP's voted either for or against Art. 50 being invoked.

I genuinely think people didn't know what they were voting for (in terms of the bigger picture). 

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3 minutes ago, zidane's child said:

I would rather MP's voted either for or against Art. 50 being invoked.

I genuinely think people didn't know what they were voting for (in terms of the bigger picture). 

That's what the court case is trying to determine: are Parliament required to vote, or can the PM exercise the perogative powers to invoke A.50. I'm also of the view parliament should vote on it, but we'll see what happens. 

MPs voting could create a situation where the vote is ignored, which though would cause mass outrage, is a brutal demonstration of the "sovereignty" that many people banged on about. A delicious irony, you may say. As elected representatives it is ultimately their call which way they go: the UK's view, their own view on the matter or even the views of their constituents. However, ignoring the result is only going to be received very badly, even if only by a fairly slim majority, and it's not something I'd really like to see happen if I'm honest (even though I voted to stay). 

I think people were unhappy with the EU and decided they didn't want to be part of it. Trouble is, you can't interpret that as a vote on the single market, for instance, though arguably it carries a stronger statement on freedom of movement. Those two being intertwined heavilly mean we won't get one without the other, though prominant leavers told people otherwise. As I've said before on here, the 2015 Conservative manifesto promised to protect the UK's place in the single market - a very difficult balancing act when compared with the pledges Leave made. I'd argue May has no obligation to try and abide by things said by the campaign winners, but they can't be dismissed out of hand entirely - the hornets nest has already been kicked  

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30 minutes ago, Michael W said:

That's what the court case is trying to determine: are Parliament required to vote, or can the PM exercise the perogative powers to invoke A.50. I'm also of the view parliament should vote on it, but we'll see what happens. 

MPs voting could create a situation where the vote is ignored, which though would cause mass outrage, is a brutal demonstration of the "sovereignty" that many people banged on about. A delicious irony, you may say. As elected representatives it is ultimately their call which way they go: the UK's view, their own view on the matter or even the views of their constituents. However, ignoring the result is only going to be received very badly, even if only by a fairly slim majority, and it's not something I'd really like to see happen if I'm honest (even though I voted to stay). 

I think people were unhappy with the EU and decided they didn't want to be part of it. Trouble is, you can't interpret that as a vote on the single market, for instance, though arguably it carries a stronger statement on freedom of movement. Those two being intertwined heavilly mean we won't get one without the other, though prominant leavers told people otherwise. As I've said before on here, the 2015 Conservative manifesto promised to protect the UK's place in the single market - a very difficult balancing act when compared with the pledges Leave made. I'd argue May has no obligation to try and abide by things said by the campaign winners, but they can't be dismissed out of hand entirely - the hornets nest has already been kicked  

I think in this case, with the back tracking of Farage et al. (NHS £300 mill debacle) and also some Leave voters saying that they wanted to change their vote, then I think MP's should vote on the decision. Then it can be put to bed and we get on with the decision.

I could be being biased here but I think the 52/48 decision wasn't an overwhelming majority so it has to be probed further, within parliament in this case.

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Do people honestly believe that the result came down to "the will of the people"? The result was predetermined, as was the Scottish Referendum. These people aren't going to allow the likes of you and I to make these kind of decisions. They make them for us while convincing us that we made them ourselves. It's a false democracy.

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1 hour ago, zidane's child said:

I think in this case, with the back tracking of Farage et al. (NHS £300 mill debacle) and also some Leave voters saying that they wanted to change their vote, then I think MP's should vote on the decision. Then it can be put to bed and we get on with the decision.

I could be being biased here but I think the 52/48 decision wasn't an overwhelming majority so it has to be probed further, within parliament in this case.

What would happen if the MPs voted by a majority of 1 to remain or to leave?  Is that more representative than the referendum?

Imagine if the same principle was used in the event of Indy2.

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If MP's find a way of reversing this decision,democracy in this country would as well be put in the bin.As much as I disagree with the result,what would be the point in having any form of referendum simply for our elected representatives to reverse it if they don't agree ?

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3 hours ago, jakedee said:

If MP's find a way of reversing this decision,democracy in this country would as well be put in the bin.As much as I disagree with the result,what would be the point in having any form of referendum simply for our elected representatives to reverse it if they don't agree ?

It's a fair and reasonable point you make. Going against the original referendum result would be deemed political suicide but I think in this case with what has happened in the aftermath, I think there should be a final decision made by MP's to invoke article 50.

I think going by what we've seen so far, there would be no gains to be made financially, despite what Farage and Gove said back in the campaigning. The country may suffer as a result if we do leave.

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Also, I don't think referendums are the way forward sadly. I'd really wouldn't like a IndyRef2.

A lot of people know very little about politics, and the bits they do know are probably snap shots from the daily mail next to a story about Katie Price or some sh**e like that. I really wouldn't want these people having a say in political change, as undemocratic of me as that sounds.

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Seems to be hotting up again. Article 50 will be invoked no later than March next year.

May to introduce  the "Great Repeal Bill" which will surely spark a constitutional crisis. This will be legislated on in the Scottish parliament. Which won't have enough support to pass.

Does Westminster just ignore the Scottish parliament and the will of the Scottish people? 

Edited by Colkitto

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4 hours ago, Colkitto said:

Seems to be hotting up again. Article 50 will be invoked no later than March next year.

May to introduce  the "Great Repeal Bill" which will surely spark a constitutional crisis. This will be legislated on in the Scottish parliament. Which won't have enough support to pass.

Does Westminster just ignore the Scottish parliament and the will of the Scottish people? 

I've really switched off to UK politics the last few months with the whole Brexit, Cameron, Farage et al. episode.

The Great Repeal Bill will basically take the current EU laws and re-legislate the into UK law. So Brexit didn't mean Brexit after all then did it Theresa?

Countries around the globe must  be laughing at our situation just now. An absolute omnishambles as Malcolm Tucker would say.

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That'll be the manifesto commitment to protect Britain's place in the single market in the bin, then. 

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