Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Donathan]

2 hours ago, btb said:

Could Labour muster enough votes at Westminster to get a second referendum - a straight Yes/No on May's deal?

Would people be tempted to vote yes just to get the business finished?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/labour-moving-towards-plan-to-let-mays-brexit-deal-pass-if-it-faces-public-vote

 

Would this vote be May's deal v No deal or May's deal v remain?

[btb]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

 

Would this vote be May's deal v No deal or May's deal v remain?

I presumed it would be May's deal or back to the drawing board/chaos giving Labour a chance to press for a second election.

[John Lambies Doos]

Could Labour muster enough votes at Westminster to get a second referendum - a straight Yes/No on May's deal?
Would people be tempted to vote yes just to get the business finished?

Labour could let May's Brexit deal pass in return for second referendum

Amendment proposed by backbenchers would see party abstain on PM’s deal as long as it is put to a public vote 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/labour-moving-towards-plan-to-let-mays-brexit-deal-pass-if-it-faces-public-vote
f**k all chance of this happening. More pish spin from the labour broadsheets

[NotThePars]

Remember though some of those small majorities came about due to the yoons throwing everything at tactical voting.

Aye ofc but you would hope that they would be lost by the Tories at the next election with an SNP campaign that actually made an effort.

[Granny Danger]

9 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/labour-moving-towards-plan-to-let-mays-brexit-deal-pass-if-it-faces-public-vote
f**k all chance of this happening. More pish spin from the labour broadsheets

I get the impression that you would prefer chaos to a positive solution to Brexit.

[Londonwell]

22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I get the impression that you would prefer chaos to a positive solution to Brexit.

Hate to hark back to this but you voted for Brexit in the hope that the fallout would lead to indy.

Hypocrisy it’s called.

[John Lambies Doos]

Hate to hark back to this but you voted for Brexit in the hope that the fallout would lead to indy.
Hypocrisy it’s called.

Thank you. GD is in denial and is a tad aggressive on this forum. Quite like him though.

[git-intae-thum]

21 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

Hate to hark back to this but you voted for Brexit in the hope that the fallout would lead to indy.

Hypocrisy it’s called.

Brexit is a catastrophic mistake.....but if its a shit deal or no deal it will lead to indy.

[Granny Danger]

44 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

Hate to hark back to this but you voted for Brexit in the hope that the fallout would lead to indy.

Hypocrisy it’s called.

I don’t think it’s called hypocrisy, though you can call it that if you want.

I call it realising the implications and admitting I got it wrong.  I realised and admitted that quite quickly after the event.

Admitting you made a mistake is maybe uncommon on P&B, but given the importance of the issue I have no problem doing it.

I’m far more worried that after all this time that there are people still wanting to pursue a path that is going to be disastorous; maybe your ire should be saved for them.

I still think a No Deal Brexit will add support for Scottish Independence, but the havoc it will cause before we get a chance to put that to the people would be significant and would take a long time to recover from.

 

[Donathan]

Brexit is a catastrophic mistake.....but if its a shit deal or no deal it will lead to indy.

Regardless, independent Scotland in the EU but with rUK out the EU without a deal isn’t a desirable position for Scotland really. It would still be better if rUK was also in the EU.

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Remember though some of those small majorities came about due to the yoons throwing everything at tactical voting.

Aye and they fucked it up by voting Tory in Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Inverclyde.

The BBC pro Tory propaganda led a lot of anti SNP voters to waste their votes in seats the Tories were miles behind in.

[Londonwell]

38 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I don’t think it’s called hypocrisy, though you can call it that if you want.

I call it realising the implications and admitting I got it wrong.  I realised and admitted that quite quickly after the event.

Admitting you made a mistake is maybe uncommon on P&B, but given the importance of the issue I have no problem doing it.

I’m far more worried that after all this time that there are people still wanting to pursue a path that is going to be disastorous; maybe your ire should be saved for them.

I still think a No Deal Brexit will add support for Scottish Independence, but the havoc it will cause before we get a chance to put that to the people would be significant and would take a long time to recover from.

 

Don't worry i've enough ire to go round

But yes, i agree with your points about a No deal brexit in relation to Indy. But actually in terms of a post independence landscape the closer Britian is aligned to the EU the better it would be for Scotland. That kinda leaves you in a weird situation of assuming that a no deal makes indy more likely but would leave us in Scotland in a trickier position post a successful Yes vote.

[Donathan]

12 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Aye and they fucked it up by voting Tory in Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Inverclyde.

The BBC pro Tory propaganda led a lot of anti SNP voters to waste their votes in seats the Tories were miles behind in.

 

This. Honestly if there was another election tomorrow the SNP would probably lose even more seats in the UK parliament. A lot of seats in west-central Scotland saw Labour absolutely take a huge chunk out of the SNP majority in 2017 and the Tories increasing their vote share to boot. Those Tories voting tactically for Labour next time will see the SNP take a hammering.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

This. Honestly if there was another election tomorrow the SNP would probably lose even more seats in the UK parliament. A lot of seats in west-central Scotland saw Labour absolutely take a huge chunk out of the SNP majority in 2017 and the Tories increasing their vote share to boot. Those Tories voting tactically for Labour next time will see the SNP take a hammering.

It's a difficult one, both the Conservative & Labour performance over Brexit has been truly appalling and the only party to come out with any sort of credit is the SNP.

On the other hand, the staunch Unionists will still stick to their party lines irrespective of what's actually happening in the country and there's also a few middle class votes who may defect from the SNP as a result of the Taxation changes.

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

It's a difficult one, both the Conservative & Labour performance over Brexit has been truly appalling and the only party to come out with any sort of credit is the SNP.

On the other hand, the staunch Unionists will still stick to their party lines irrespective of what's actually happening in the country and there's also a few middle class votes who may defect from the SNP as a result of the Taxation changes.

 

TBF, does the SNP have a particularly large base of middle class voters anymore?  I feel as though the previous middle class SNP heartlands are Tory seats now whereas the old Labour heartlands are now SNP heartlands.

[Tibbermoresaint]

45 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

Regardless, independent Scotland in the EU but with rUK out the EU without a deal isn’t a desirable position for Scotland really. It would still be better if rUK was also in the EU.

 

It's a more desirable position than a non-independent Scotland being outside the EU.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

 
TBF, does the SNP have a particularly large base of middle class voters anymore?  I feel as though the previous middle class SNP heartlands are Tory seats now whereas the old Labour heartlands are now SNP heartlands.

Since the shift to the left when the current FM came in I think a number of votes will have come back to the Conservative Party.

[Donathan]

2 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

It's a more desirable position than a non-independent Scotland being outside the EU.

 

Correct, but my point is that independence supporters shouldn't really be hoping for a catastrophic no deal Brexit as a vehicle for independence, a much more desirable position would be a deal or no Brexit at all, but then Scotland still choosing to govern itself anyway.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

TBF, does the SNP have a particularly large base of middle class voters anymore?  I feel as though the previous middle class SNP heartlands are Tory seats now whereas the old Labour heartlands are now SNP heartlands.

There are still quite a few pockets of middle class SNP voters throughout the country, with my own area of Ayrshire being one of them.

The biggest problem for the electorate is that there's major flaws with every party at the moment and it may actually come down to turnout which could well act in the SNP's favour.

The way some of the political results have been going recently it's a pretty tough task trying to second guess anything.............

[Cerberus]

A gammon death march.
Jocks aren’t allowed.