Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[supermik]

5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

When the constituency voted to leave the EU what exactly were they voting for?  A Hard Brexit?  The sort of deal May is offering?  A Norway style option?  Something else?

It’s hard for a constituency MP to represent the wishes given the vagaries of what the wishes are.

 

Shouldn’t matter. If the majority of the locals voted in one direction then the MP should do as they voted. They were elected to do as the voters wanted.

[Granny Danger]

It looks like the shadow cabinet and the PLP are split on the issue of a second referendum.  It might explain Corbyn’s reluctance.

It is ironic that many opposed to the concept are the left wingers who would in the past argue Labour Conference’s policy position should be paramount.  Now arguing for a free vote despite the policy having been decided.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/corbyn-could-face-string-of-resignations-if-he-backs-peoples-vote

[Granny Danger]

3 minutes ago, supermik said:

Shouldn’t matter. If the majority of the locals voted in one direction then the MP should do as they voted. They were elected to do as the voters wanted.

That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve seen posted here.  Read my response to your post then try again.

 

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, supermik said:

Shouldn’t matter. If the majority of the locals voted in one direction then the MP should do as they voted. They were elected to do as the voters wanted 2 and a half years ago.

FTFY.

[strichener]

10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

When the constituency voted to leave the EU what exactly were they voting for?  A Hard Brexit?  The sort of deal May is offering?  A Norway style option?  Something else?

It’s hard for a constituency MP to represent the wishes given the vagaries of what the wishes are.

 

The same question is equally applicable to remain.  The idea that only leave voters didn't know what they were voting for is absolutely ridiculous.

Only certain areas of policy is able to vetoed, the others being simple majority, do all remain voters know that this is the case, which areas it applies to and where appropriate that our government will use the veto only ways that they agree with.  I would suggest not.

[Antlion]

4 minutes ago, supermik said:

Shouldn’t matter. If the majority of the locals voted in one direction then the MP should do as they voted. They were elected to do as the voters wanted.

That’s not how representative democracy works. Like it or loathe it, in the UK the system is that MPs vote however they want. They’re not supposed or expected to do as their constituents want. If the constituents don’t like it, their only real option is to vote for someone else at the next election.

[supermik]

Not interested in your response. Stand by my view.

[strichener]

2 minutes ago, Antlion said:

That’s not how representative democracy works. Like it or loathe it, in the UK the system is that MPs vote however they want. They’re not supposed or expected to do as their constituents want. If the constituents don’t like it, their only real option is to vote for someone else at the next election.

On this basis they have already voted to allow no deal Brexit.  Fucking idiots, did someone mention half a brain?

[supermik]

2 minutes ago, Antlion said:

That’s not how representative democracy works. Like it or loathe it, in the UK the system is that MPs vote however they want. They’re not supposed or expected to do as their constituents want. If the constituents don’t like it, their only real option is to vote for someone else at the next election.

so vote for someone else and they will also do as they want?

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, supermik said:

Not interested in your response. Stand by my view.

You can stand by your view if you like; people can stand by the belief that the earth is hollow and its interior populated by upside-down cavemen worshipping an internal sun. That doesn’t make it true. 

[Antlion]

Just now, supermik said:

so vote for someone else and they will also do as they want?

Pretty much.

[supermik]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

You can stand by your view if you like; people can stand by the belief that the earth is hollow and its interior populated by upside-down cavemen worshipping an internal sun. That doesn’t make it true. 

Utter nonsense. God told me that the cavemen dont exist! 

[Antlion]

2 minutes ago, supermik said:

Utter nonsense. God told me that the cavemen dont exist! 

 

[NotThePars]

3 hours ago, welshbairn said:

This podcast is good if you want to know from the inside where it all went wrong for May, some of it a bit "wasn't my fault gov" but worth a listen till Polly Toynbee comes on, giving "The People's Vote" an even worse name than it already has. Whoever came up with that name and let Blair in as a supporter should have their skin shaved for eternity with a cheese grater.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2019/jan/17/how-brexit-unravelled-today-in-focus-podcast

Every day I'm staggered at how awful the representatives for a People's Vote are at selling what should be the easiest bet in British politics. Polly Townbee is publicly backing the deaths of old Leavers as a reason to hold another vote. She's publicly supporting a strategy, as an apparent electoral expert, the sort of shit we say on here when we're hammered.

1 hour ago, The OP said:

Devil’s advocate time - did factories ever close or relocate before now?

 

”Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”.

 

I think it's fair to say that Brexit has happened because it's the first meaningful attempt that large swathes of the population who have suffered under decades of neoliberal orthodoxy have had to f**k the governing class' shit up. and now they're paying real attention to stuff that's happened for a long time. It is undoubtable though that those same job losses and economic contraction have accelerated.

I think we're completely fucked regardless of Brexit or whoever governs this country in the near future. It took us plundering the remnants of our empire to build the welfare state the first time and f**k knows how we're gonna restore it this time around.

 

21 minutes ago, Tynierose said:

It's for the greater good, the general public are on the whole complete and utter mouth breathing morons who should be left to watch Hollyoaks and Towie.   All serious decisions on constitutional matters should be left to those with at least half a brain.

Brexit is the crowning example of why the British public should never be trusted to make an important decision ever again.

The vote for Brexit is the human equivalent of self harm.   A vote that was made after swallowing a pack of lies, being generally misinformed for some and for others sheer racism.

In essence it's a fucking disaster and anyone that still believes that Brexit is the way forward is either a moron or a racist.  

The Brexit vote in particular should never have been put to referendum but that's because the governing class have purposely tried to make politics exist beyond the awareness of the public and have then lost their shit when they've decided to entrust the resolution to what was essentially a decades long public school dispute to a public that they've purposely alienated.

 

[NotThePars]

15 minutes ago, Antlion said:

That’s not how representative democracy works. Like it or loathe it, in the UK the system is that MPs vote however they want. They’re not supposed or expected to do as their constituents want. If the constituents don’t like it, their only real option is to vote for someone else at the next election.

 

There's a great view from David Runciman from the latest issue of the London Review of Books where he argues "It is not that parliamentary government has failed. Or that plebiscitary democracy has failed. But this way of trying to combine parliamentary government with plebiscitary democracy has failed." I think we'd all agree that you can hold referendums (we wouldn't be afvocating for indyref2 if we didn't. But it's apparent that you can't just hold a referendum on a whim when you can't see any other method of resolving your fucking internal party disputes. Particularly one as ludicrously complex and purposely aloof from daily life as the European Union.

[BFTD]

So...as we enter the shuddering death throes of this whole process, how do we stand with regard to business with the world outside the EU? Obviously the government can't make anything official until the EU is finally shot of us, but no doubt there's a raft of favourable trade deals in the pipeline, with old allies like Australia, India, America, etc...surely some of the details must have leaked by now; the politicians have been working on this for years, FFS. Perhaps we should have a new thread about this aspect of leaving the EU, as there must be a lot to discuss. We're obviously not on the brink of ending our most profitable business relationship with no concrete plans for replacement, like a fighter pilot in a crippled jet, hurtling towards the looming Earth as we scream into the billowing smoke from our dying engine, the flames roasting the peeling flesh from the tired bones within?

Right?

[Fullerene]

5 hours ago, The OP said:

Devil’s advocate time - did factories ever close or relocate before now?

”Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”.

Perfectly true.

The other question is this.  If Brexit was the reason for the decision - would you want to make that public?
Probably not.
If you did - you would suddenly be thrown into the political dialogue going on just now.
Not sure the shareholders would like that.
Better to say "technical difficulties" or "unforeseen circumstances" and then quietly disappear.

[Fullerene]

5 hours ago, supermik said:

Possibly my second post in here as I honestly do not give a monkeys chuff about politics. 

If a constituency voted to leave the eu, what right did their elected local MP have to vote against their wishes?

When I get on a plane, I generally know where I want to go but I rely on the pilot to get me there.

If the pilot decides it can't be done, because of a thunderstorm, lack of fuel or anything else, I would just have to accept that.

[Fullerene]

4 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

So...as we enter the shuddering death throes of this whole process, how do we stand with regard to business with the world outside the EU? Obviously the government can't make anything official until the EU is finally shot of us, but no doubt there's a raft of favourable trade deals in the pipeline, with old allies like Australia, India, America, etc...surely some of the details must have leaked by now; the politicians have been working on this for years, FFS. Perhaps we should have a new thread about this aspect of leaving the EU, as there must be a lot to discuss. We're obviously not on the brink of ending our most profitable business relationship with no concrete plans for replacement, like a fighter pilot in a crippled jet, hurtling towards the looming Earth as we scream into the billowing smoke from our dying engine, the flames roasting the peeling flesh from the tired bones within?

Right?

Is this some reference to the Shoreham air show crash that is currently going through the courts just now?

I hadn't thought of the comparison before but now that you mention it ..

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Shouldn’t matter. If the majority of the locals voted in one direction then the MP should do as they voted. They were elected to do as the voters wanted.

That's like saying that following a General Election MP's should only represent those who voted for him or her - would that be your view too ?