Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[coprolite]

It's overly simplistic and i'd guess probably wrong to blame trade restrictions for the UKs lower growth. 

Austerity part 1, 2010 to 2017 meant that we didn't return to trend growth rates after the financial crisis like everyone else who actually spent. 

Austerity part 2 is getting underway and is suppressing expectations and therefore investment. Also the Government is cutting real spending which directly impacts growth. 

In the meantime, and setting aside covid spending, our government capital spending has been on unproductive shite, like a new customs regime and a couple of white elephant railways into London. 

Immigration also drives growth. We might have had record net immigration last year but the composition of that was something like 3/4  refugees (Hong Kong, Afghanistan and Ukraine mainly). Previously immigration was mainly east or south Europeans coming to work, which we've apparently decided is bad. 

Our monetary and fiscal policy is set to protect returns on assets at the expense of returns on labour. This means that surplus from production is more likely to be saved or exported and not recycled in the UK economy. 

Trade barriers and inefficiencies are undoubtedly a factor in suppressing growth as well. 

But it is doing the Tories a massive disservice to fail to recognise that they have been fighting growth on a number of fronts for years and have almost managed to eradicate it after twelve years of dedicated patrician incompetence. 

[razamanaz]

On 10/12/2022 at 21:55, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

In Rome just now, its amazing how much friendlier people are when they ask you ‘Are you British’ and you tell them ‘no, Scottish’. The Europeans get it. 

Balderdash, I was in the merchant navy in the 80s, and that was the case then all over the world, feckall to do with Brexit, just no-one likes the English

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Brexit wasn’t just about trade deals and such like.

Primarily, it was about sovereignty and being able to steer our own course in the world.

I would liken it to how the nationalists feel about an independent Scotland. There is no economic case for tearing away from your next door neighbour and biggest market.

Its sovereignty, nothing more, nothing less.

My country is the UK, the nationalists see their country as Scotland.

Its really quite simple.

The UK was sovereign when it was in the EU. Just like it is sovereign while being in NATO, the UN, the ECHR, the Geneva Convention etc. 

I'm not a supporter of either Brexit or Scottish independence, but there's a more compelling economic case for the latter than the very limited case for Brexit. 

Scotland (and Northern England and NI) is subject to monetary policy designed to cool inflation in the South East. This is a major structural disadvantage which permanently harms growth and development in Scotland.

The EU imposed some restrictions on subsidies, and that was it. 

Many people voted for Brexit because of the claims that it would be a massive economic boost. That was always a lie. If only one in 25 brexit voters was swung by that argument then brexit was "won" by a lie. 

[Granny Danger]

22 minutes ago, razamanaz said:

Balderdash, I was in the merchant navy in the 80s, and that was the case then all over the world, feckall to do with Brexit, just no-one likes the English

Reported for bad language.

[Clown Job]

Of course people know the political set up of the UK is entirely different from the EU 

 

[coprolite]

4 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

Yes, that’s what I meant from the first post. The reason most of these countries economies continue to grow is the way the “trade” with the world, through the EU, USMCA etc. Maybe there is zero gain to brexit, and certainly none with a Tory government, but that doesn’t make the EU project any less problematic.

What exactly do you think is problematic about the EU project? 

I don't think that the EU is flawless by any means but it was something that the UK benefitted from overall. To my mind the best way to address the flaws would be through having a say in how the EU is run. It's not like we were an insignificant member. 

[Fullerene]

If sovereignty is the issue then why are there 27 countries where it does not matter?

During the Brexit referendum the MSM were full of talk about other countries preparing to leave as well.  That came to nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Soapy FFC]

14 minutes ago, coprolite said:

What exactly do you think is problematic about the EU project? 

I don't think that the EU is flawless by any means but it was something that the UK benefitted from overall. To my mind the best way to address the flaws would be through having a say in how the EU is run. It's not like we were an insignificant member. 

 

[Antlion]

38 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

If sovereignty is the issue then why are there 27 countries where it does not matter?

During the Brexit referendum the MSM were full of talk about other countries preparing to leave as well.  That came to nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If sovereignty is the issue, why do UK Nats insist on calling themselves “unionists” and pretending Scotland, England, Wales, and NI should not have sovereignty?

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, Clown Job said:

Of course people know the political set up of the UK is entirely different from the EU 

 

Aye, all the things that Brexiters were claiming was intolerable about the EU goes treble for the UK - yet they seem to see no problem there, which undermines their arguments a bit.

[KirkieRR]

27 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Aye, all the things that Brexiters were claiming was intolerable about the EU goes treble for the UK - yet they seem to see no problem there, which undermines their arguments a bit.

UK is FPTP while EU Parliament is PR. Therefore PR BAAD! if you're a Brexiteer.

[MazzyStar]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

What exactly do you think is problematic about the EU project? 

I don't think that the EU is flawless by any means but it was something that the UK benefitted from overall. To my mind the best way to address the flaws would be through having a say in how the EU is run. It's not like we were an insignificant member. 

There is no interest from member states to address these flaws. The EU has been moving further to the right even before brexit and obviously the likes of David Cameron would have little interest in any meaningful change within the EU. 

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

There is no interest from member states to address these flaws. The EU has been moving further to the right even before brexit and obviously the likes of David Cameron would have little interest in any meaningful change within the EU. 

I'm glad we ditched those right wingers. 

[MazzyStar]

27 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I'm glad we ditched those right wingers. 

[BFTD]

You'd think that, after all these years of being asked "what sovereignty issues did you have with the EU?" people would be able to come up with something, anything, to hide the fact that their only concern was immigration.

Or, y'know, just admit it. Why care about what remoaners think anyway? Just reclaim the word "racist" and run with it. Or switch to "xenophobe" rather than trying to hide behind dictionaries. Make Xenophobia Great Again. Get it on t-shirts. Use it as a descriptor on social media platforms. Just think what the Silent Majority of Common Sense could accomplish if you'd all just band together. Bound to be a few inspiring examples from history to reference.

[MazzyStar]

12 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Which flaws do you mean?

Bureaucracy, policy towards immigration from outside of Europe, anti nationalisation regulations, inaction towards neo-colonialism of member states are a few. 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

“The reason I voted for Brexit is that the EU doesn’t treat brown people fairly.”

An absolute cracker of the genre.

[MazzyStar]

I didn’t vote to leave. What do you disagree with about in the post? 

[welshbairn]

25 minutes ago, MazzyStar said:

Bureaucracy, policy towards immigration from outside of Europe, anti nationalisation regulations, inaction towards neo-colonialism of member states are a few. 

Just a bit curious how post Brexit UK wins over the EU on any of these counts?

[MazzyStar]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Just a bit curious how post Brexit UK wins over the EU on any of these counts?

Didn’t say it did.