Granny Danger Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Anonapersona said: Yes. Brexit killed Kennedy. That makes perfect sense. ffs Brexit is also the reason Dundee haven’t won the Scottish Cup for 112 years. Oh no, wait; it wasn’t Brexit, it’s because they’re shite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit. Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well. Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe. The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry. People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade. GD- you’ll be proved right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 hours ago, TapothehullDee said: Did Brexit kill President Kennedy as well, the surrender monkeys and the loony left blame Brexit for everything. Absolute nut jobs. Kennedy was killed by the devil in his Jagger incarnation, plus one other unidentified person. There's a widely available taped confession. Parts of the "loony left" (JC) quite liked Brexit. I do think that your suggestion (that the arrangments at a major border with the EU isn't brexit related) is heroic though. Stick to your principles, no matter how dumb, without regard to evidence. But please punctuate better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 It's true that problems with French Border Control leading to delays at Dover happen every year in the school holidays. We always had a 'hard' border with France, being non-Schengen. Passports now need to be stamped, which will means it'll take slightly longer but on the whole should not cause too much additional disruption. Even if it did, stamping passports will no longer be necessary when ETIAS comes into force (supposedly next year). Will this mean no more backlogs? Will it f**k. As I said, this happens every year. What we do now have (permanently) is a customs border - goods exiting the UK require border checks before entering France/the EU. These are time consuming and sap resources, almost certainly leading to delays for passengers owing to capacity reasons. At peak times, queues will happen as they have always done, but they might well get pretty bad. As we have mutually arranged for French Border Control to take place in the UK, the UK government will most likely need to meet the costs of more resources. It doesn't want to, but it's the only way to try and mitigate these problems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Michael W said: It's true that problems with French Border Control leading to delays at Dover happen every year in the school holidays. We always had a 'hard' border with France, being non-Schengen. Passports now need to be stamped, which will means it'll take slightly longer but on the whole should not cause too much additional disruption. Even if it did, stamping passports will no longer be necessary when ETIAS comes into force (supposedly next year). Will this mean no more backlogs? Will it f**k. As I said, this happens every year. What we do now have (permanently) is a customs border - goods exiting the UK require border checks before entering France/the EU. These are time consuming and sap resources, almost certainly leading to delays for passengers owing to capacity reasons. At peak times, queues will happen as they have always done, but they might well get pretty bad. As we have mutually arranged for French Border Control to take place in the UK, the UK government will most likely need to meet the costs of more resources. It doesn't want to, but it's the only way to try and mitigate these problems. According to the Independent, the 'chill out, things will get better' viewpoint may be a bit misplaced. From May 2023, it seems that the non-EU based travellers will no longer have to have their passports stamped to enter the EU! Hurrah! Yaaaas! However, instead, the next steps will require every traveller being fingerprinted and have to provide a facial biometric. For good measure, those wishing to enter the Schengen area will have to first apply online for permission to enter. Report at : - https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-border-etias-dover-eurostar-b2130495.html It's all going very well, isn't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: According to the Independent, the 'chill out, things will get better' viewpoint may be a bit misplaced. From May 2023, it seems that the non-EU based travellers will no longer have to have their passports stamped to enter the EU! Hurrah! Yaaaas! However, instead, the next steps will require every traveller being fingerprinted and have to provide a facial biometric. For good measure, those wishing to enter the Schengen area will have to first apply online for permission to enter. Report at : - https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-border-etias-dover-eurostar-b2130495.html It's all going very well, isn't it? It'll get better before it gets worse again at the next peak time. The Independent is I think wrong about the need for biometric data to be collected. I recall that UK passport holders will be able to use the eGates again once it's in place, which would cause an issue trying to obtain the fingerprints etc. I checked the guidance and it seems to agree. https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-form-application Quote The only official document that travellers need to complete the online application is a biometric passport. They will also need an email address and a debit or credit card. Biometric passports are required for their security advantages such as preventing unauthorised reading or “skimming” of the passport information. According to the experience of other countries with similar travel authorisation systems (US, Canada, Australia), an estimated 95% of applications, or more, will be approved within minutes. Fingerprints and other biometric data will not be collected. Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding, but I think the visa waiver through ETIAS is the permission to travel there and it's valid for three years. Can't see anything saying it needs to be done every time before travelling. Still not ideal, right enough. I believe the UK is working on a similar system also for third country nationals. And unfortunately, none of this is going to resolve any problems at Dover, which will continue to be a periodic shambles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said: You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit. Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well. Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe. The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry. People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade. GD- you’ll be proved right. Incorrect again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said: You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit. Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well. Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe. The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry. People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade. GD- you’ll be proved right. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well. How many years is "a few more years"? Because initially it was "we will have the upper hand" and "we will see the benefits straight away" then it became "we might not see the benefits for around 50 years" (Rees-Mogg), and people who have had this shotshow foisted on them would rather see some of these so-called benefits before we shuffle off this mortal coil Quote Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe. This sort of thing has been said about the EU for my entire lifetime and guess what, the EU is still standing strong. Italy has been a political basket case for decades but is still standing. And it may have escaped your attention but the UK is the worst performing of the G8 apart from Russia. Even taking energy into account, it won't have escaped your attention that several EU countries have done a lot more to help domestic consumers than Blighty... Quote The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry. We were never in Schengen but we never had to have our passports stamped. We were never in Schengen but we were in the single market so goods vehicles could have cursory glances rather than detailed inspections. You may have not had any issues entering the EU but it's no help to those stuck in the queues caused by those checks that we imposed on ourselves. Quote People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade. Again, you may be right that some holidaymakers might avoid France but that doesn't help the hauliers and exporters who rely on the Dover-Calais crossing. You also are assuming that all the leisure traffic is staying in France and not heading elsewhere? Quote GD- you’ll be proved right We'll see. I doubt it, tbh. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Salvo Montalbano said: How many years is "a few more years"? Because initially it was "we will have the upper hand" and "we will see the benefits straight away" then it became "we might not see the benefits for around 50 years" (Rees-Mogg), and people who have had this shotshow foisted on them would rather see some of these so-called benefits before we shuffle off this mortal coil This sort of thing has been said about the EU for my entire lifetime and guess what, the EU is still standing strong. Italy has been a political basket case for decades but is still standing. And it may have escaped your attention but the UK is the worst performing of the G8 apart from Russia. Even taking energy into account, it won't have escaped your attention that several EU countries have done a lot more to help domestic consumers than Blighty... We were never in Schengen but we never had to have our passports stamped. We were never in Schengen but we were in the single market so goods vehicles could have cursory glances rather than detailed inspections. You may have not had any issues entering the EU but it's no help to those stuck in the queues caused by those checks that we imposed on ourselves. Again, you may be right that some holidaymakers might avoid France but that doesn't help the hauliers and exporters who rely on the Dover-Calais crossing. You also are assuming that all the leisure traffic is staying in France and not heading elsewhere? We'll see. I doubt it, tbh. Decent response. How long ? Who knows but the OECD forecasts the UK to have higher growth than the Eurozone in 2022. A lot of those statistics are meaningless as it depends on the point of time they’re taken. The big plus for the UK is having its own currency which avoids the huge disparity, as in the eurozone, between the Northern countries such as Germany and Holland and the southern ones such as Spain, Portugal and Greece. As you say, we’ll see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 54 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Decent response. How long ? Who knows but the OECD forecasts the UK to have higher growth than the Eurozone in 2022. A lot of those statistics are meaningless as it depends on the point of time they’re taken. The big plus for the UK is having its own currency which avoids the huge disparity, as in the eurozone, between the Northern countries such as Germany and Holland and the southern ones such as Spain, Portugal and Greece. As you say, we’ll see. I think we're already seeing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Michael W said: The Independent is I think wrong about the need for biometric data to be collected. I recall that UK passport holders will be able to use the eGates again once it's in place, which would cause an issue trying to obtain the fingerprints etc. I checked the guidance and it seems to agree. https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-form-application Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding, but I think the visa waiver through ETIAS is the permission to travel there and it's valid for three years. Can't see anything saying it needs to be done every time before travelling. Still not ideal, right enough. I believe the UK is working on a similar system also for third country OK, this wasn't right RE the biometrics. Hands up and apologies to The Independent. ETIAS doesn't require any biometric data as I stated, but the new Entry/Exit System (EES) does. I wasn't aware of EES as well. A little knowledge is dangerous. The link here has a memo with more information about ETIAS, which is quite useful https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/smart-borders/european-travel-information-authorisation-system_en The below give more information on EES. It is essentially aligned closely to ETIAS, but does the donkey work of measuring entry/exit and, unlike at present, will strongly enforce the 90 day limit in 180 days. Not that I'd recommend it, but if you breach that right now it's unlikely you'll get caught if the 90 days is made up of multiple entries and exits, as the border guard would need to count all the stamps and calculate the dates. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-to-launch-biometric-entry-exit-system-in-a-few-months/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/entry-exit-system-ees/ Not clear to me how this is going to work in practice as I can't find any guidance, but the relevant Regulation states that four finger prints should be registered in EES "if physically possible" and that authorities in each Member State can decide if a facial image or fingerprints are to be used as the identifier (recital 21). I imagine facial images are easier for the eGates, although perhaps they'll retrofit the fingerprint scanners. Most likely, it will be some combination of both depending on the place of arrival. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2017/2226/oj So, yeah, more of a pain than I thought it was going to be, unfortunately. We can upgrade 'not ideal' to 'pretty irritating'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said: You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit. Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well. Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe. The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry. People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade. GD- you’ll be proved right. As was pointed out to you previously the £ has lost almost an identical % amount v the $ as the € over the last 12 months. There is no greater weakness in the Eurozone economy than the UK when compared to the US over the last year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/25/lorries-dover-boris-johnson-tory-leadership-brexit "The Brexit slogan “Take back control” was always a lie. Boris Johnson, in a long boast about his so-called achievements in the Sunday Express yesterday, wrote that he “took back control of our borders”. Perhaps he should have visited the M20 in Dover, where thousands of immobile lorries are stacked up, and repeated this claim to their drivers. Under the EU, Britain’s borders were an issue negotiated with its neighbours. Under Brexit, the border at Dover is now controlled by France – and there is not a thing Britain can do about it. When we left the EU we lost all control." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapy FFC Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 5 hours ago, Michael W said: Not clear to me how this is going to work in practice as I can't find any guidance, but the relevant Regulation states that four finger prints should be registered in EES "if physically possible" and that authorities in each Member State can decide if a facial image or fingerprints are to be used as the identifier (recital 21). I imagine facial images are easier for the eGates, although perhaps they'll retrofit the fingerprint scanners. Most likely, it will be some combination of both depending on the place of arrival. I did think they were taking it too far when I read that as 'rectal' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 11 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said: You’re far too pessimistic about Brexit. Give it a few more years and I think the UK will be doing fairly well. Look at the EU. GDP is falling, the euro has fallen to parity with the dollar and politically, things don’t look good, especially in Italy. Add in the impending winter energy shortages and I’m more than happy to be out of Europe. The border issues at France are just them being awkward as we were never in Schengen. I’ve been to a few European countries this year and no problem on entry. People will just give up on France and switch to Spain, Portugal and other countries. They will lose the trade. GD- you’ll be proved right. EU Gdp isn't shrinking. France's quarter on quarter is - ve but +ve for the year. The Euro area is growing (more slowly than UK but this is still bounceback so not too exciting). The Scandinavians shrunk last quarter, but Norway by twice as much as the others.... The euro has tanked by 13% compared to the Us$ in a year, compared to the mighty Sterling which has only lost a mere 12%. Not that that shows anything meaningful anyway. Obviously our politics looks much healthier than Italy's which tends to be dominated by the super rich and populist morons. The UK doing "fairly well" in a few years sounds great. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 7 hours ago, Soapy FFC said: I did think they were taking it too far when I read that as 'rectal' Reassuring in a way to know they are not taking any shit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 12 hours ago, Soapy FFC said: I did think they were taking it too far when I read that as 'rectal' They'll still make an arse of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 Daniel Lambert, who supplies M&S, Waitrose and 300 independent retailers, to set up in France after £150,000 hole in revenue. A British wine wholesaler who last year criticised Brexit as the biggest threat to his business in 30 years has decided to leave the UK after post-Brexit paperwork made a £150,000 hole in revenue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 10 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said: Daniel Lambert, who supplies M&S, Waitrose and 300 independent retailers, to set up in France after £150,000 hole in revenue. A British wine wholesaler who last year criticised Brexit as the biggest threat to his business in 30 years has decided to leave the UK after post-Brexit paperwork made a £150,000 hole in revenue. Those Brexit dividends continue to pay off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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