Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[speckled tangerine]

13 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

17 minutes ago, speckled tangerine said:

Those Perthshire fields that vote for Murdo won't have any cattle in them once those hormone filled, pesticide cuts from OZ take over the shelves. 
Idiots.

Still vote Torys though

Yup.

We have betrayed. We have been lied to. Our businesses are finished.......

But it would be much worse in an independent Scotland within the EU.

That covers it, aye?

[Baxter Parp]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57484741

Sharp increase in trade across Irish border in April

The value of NI exports to Ireland more than doubled year-on-year from €137m to €296m (£117m to £255m).

So, faced with a harder border with GB, NI traders were able to increase trade with the EU to make up for it.  I'm sure there's a lesson there, somewhere.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Baxter Parp

[bendan]

5 hours ago, speckled tangerine said:

Those Perthshire fields that vote for Murdo won't have any cattle in them once those hormone filled, pesticide cuts from OZ take over the shelves. 

Idiots.

I thought it was the Brexit gammons who thought our BSE meat was better than the foreign muck.

[SANTAN]

17 hours ago, speckled tangerine said:

Yup.

We have betrayed. We have been lied to. Our businesses are finished.......

But it would be much worse in an independent Scotland within the EU.

That covers it, aye?

The people that are so wildly critical of Brexit and hark on about the negatives that are also pro Scottish Indy and laugh off the negatives by comparing them to Brexit absolutley fry my brain. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Stormzy

[SANTAN]

Just now, TAFKAM said:

Why? One is based on speculation (either to a worse or better outcome according to your outlook), one is based on actual things that are actually happening.

Because you can base much of your actual speculation on the things that are actually happening.

I personally think people on this thread are doing a surface level approach, they see some story that had Brexit in the headline and if they think it's a negative then they post it in here. You could dive deep and thoroughly make your case for both Brexit and SIndy but if you used the same surface level "Brexit bad" "shit trade deals" patter and applied it to SIndy you wouldn't be sitting here laughing at how apparantly terrible Brexit is when Indy using such logic would be worse overall.

[speckled tangerine]

13 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

The people that are so wildly critical of Brexit and hark on about the negatives that are also pro Scottish Indy and laugh off the negatives by comparing them to Brexit absolutley fry my brain. 

Who's laughing?

The fishing and agriculture sector is absolutely fucked. For all the schadenfreude of point and laugh at the Tory/Brexit supporting morons like Jimmy Buchan and the land owning Barbour set, that's rural areas and local folk right in the shit. Normal folk suffer more, in terms of direct job losses and knock on multipliers.

Alaistair Jack has a fucking cheek claiming it's a great deal. We all knew they would be fucked over and so it has come to pass. It's proper Stockholm syndrome if folk directly affected by policy supported by those they chose to vote for, despite the warnings and will continue to vote for them again and again.

Not funny ha ha. Sad and incredible more like.

[bendan]

For me the strange thing is that some supporters of independence constantly take at face value very obvious anti-Brexit scaremongering ('utterly ruin domestic beef production' etc) when we all know that in any independence campaign, there will be very obvious scaremongering by Unionists ('utterly ruin the Scottish financial sector' etc).

[speckled tangerine]

7 minutes ago, TAFKAM said:

Not in this case I don't think. The UK is desperate for trade deals and is obviously signing up to conditions that are humiliatingly asymmetrical. Like 15 years matters a jot against the terrifying numbers being published in Australian media about this. The EU's many things, some good, some bad but there's no way they'd entertain something that will utterly ruin domestic beef production. If I was a Galloway farmer with the slightest aspirations to hand on my farm to my children then I'd be very nervous about what the future holds for them out of the EU.

Agree totally.

My wife's family are irish beef farmers and they could not believe the views of the vociferous large farming set in the UK. I send them over Scottish Farmer and trade papers like that. They're laughing up their sleeves as imports to the UK increase and exports over collapse.

In terms of beef imports, there is absolutely no chance, NONE, that UK farmers can compete on price with OZ imports. And when you're down the supermarket looking at the meat, price is very often the key thing. Never mind the quality, feel the width.

This Australia deal has been signed in a panic. To paraphrase, sign in haste- repent at leisure.

[SANTAN]

21 minutes ago, speckled tangerine said:

Who's laughing?

The fishing and agriculture sector is absolutely fucked. For all the schadenfreude of point and laugh at the Tory/Brexit supporting morons like Jimmy Buchan and the land owning Barbour set, that's rural areas and local folk right in the shit. Normal folk suffer more, in terms of direct job losses and knock on multipliers.

Alaistair Jack has a fucking cheek claiming it's a great deal. We all knew they would be fucked over and so it has come to pass. It's proper Stockholm syndrome if folk directly affected by policy supported by those they chose to vote for, despite the warnings and will continue to vote for them again and again.

Not funny ha ha. Sad and incredible more like.

So because you're incredibly saddened by this you're presumably not going to vote Indy and potentially afflict other with similar outcomes as you've stated above? 

[SANTAN]

10 minutes ago, bendan said:

For me the strange thing is that some supporters of independence constantly take at face value very obvious anti-Brexit scaremongering ('utterly ruin domestic beef production' etc) when we all know that in any independence campaign, there will be very obvious scaremongering by Unionists ('utterly ruin the Scottish financial sector' etc).

That's a good summation of my point. It's just kinda weird to see SIndy supporters picking and choosing which parts they think matter and then switching sides when the roles are reversed and applied to Indy over Brexit. 

[SANTAN]

20 minutes ago, TAFKAM said:

Not in this case I don't think. The UK is desperate for trade deals and is obviously signing up to conditions that are humiliatingly asymmetrical. Like 15 years matters a jot against the terrifying numbers being published in Australian media about this. The EU's many things, some good, some bad but there's no way they'd entertain something that will utterly ruin domestic beef production. If I was a Galloway farmer with the slightest aspirations to hand on my farm to my children then I'd be very nervous about what the future holds for them out of the EU.

I'm not clued up enough to offer an opinion on the specifics of the deal but the worry you talk of is going to exist tenfold if Sindy were to happen. A hard border with England would destroy a lot of Border businesses and prices would increase on both sides. 

Ultimately with these things there are winners and losers but for me this thread especially considering the general attitude towards Indy on here seems to be hand picking the losers and going overboard with it imo. 

[speckled tangerine]

1 minute ago, Stormzy said:

So because you're incredibly saddened by this you're presumably not going to vote Indy and potentially afflict other with similar outcomes as you've stated above? 

I will vote for independence every day of the week and twice on Sunday, and being a part of the EU is key to this.

Can you imagine the EU negotiating a deal as bad as the Australian one? Me neither.

[SANTAN]

Just now, speckled tangerine said:

I will vote for independence every day of the week and twice on Sunday, and being a part of the EU is key to this.

Can you imagine the EU negotiating a deal as bad as the Australian one? Me neither.

I can imagine the EU doing worse for members states and they've done so plenty of times. 

Are you concerned about Scotlands ability to join the EU? 

If it was certain that Scotland would have to wait 10 years to join (random number) would you still be as supportive of Indy? 

[bendan]

2 minutes ago, TAFKAM said:

In what way am I scaremongering? In 15 years time one country will be allowed to export the equivalent of near enough 20% of domestic production. Presumbly when the UK goes knocking on the doors of the US, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, they'll have similar demands based on precedent?

We already have a tariff and quota free deal with the EU, or were you forgetting that? We imported, and still import, boatloads of Irish beef, though that fell in the immediate aftermath of Brexit:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/arid-40250537.html

Other reports say UK beef prices up:

https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/taking-stock/record-uk-beef-prices-lead-to-irish-cattle-imports

Hard to see how that is terrible for Scottish farmers.

 

 

[bendan]

9 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

That's a good summation of my point. It's just kinda weird to see SIndy supporters picking and choosing which parts they think matter and then switching sides when the roles are reversed and applied to Indy over Brexit. 

This is absolutely true, but the Tories do the same thing in reverse.

[bendan]

1 minute ago, TAFKAM said:

Well yeah and that's the bit with the EU that's maybe not so great for farmers - I think they thought they were going to get a degree of protection as a vital sector of the economy from the tories by leaving and it's the opposite.

Both Australia and the EU face substantial non-tariff barriers to the UK market now. As part of the EU, there were no real barriers to EU beef imports. Again, your argument doesn't stack up against reality.

[speckled tangerine]

I would say that if UK beef prices are high, but comparable Irish beef is going for 20/25% less, I can't see how this would be a good thing for farmers here. 

Incidentally, my brother in law is worried about this crazy Australian deal. Why? Because they can undercut Irish prices by another 20%. 

The consumer will get a cheap product, but not necessarily a high quality product. Scott Morrison is laughing. Nobody else is.

[NotThePars]

For me the strange thing is that some supporters of independence constantly take at face value very obvious anti-Brexit scaremongering ('utterly ruin domestic beef production' etc) when we all know that in any independence campaign, there will be very obvious scaremongering by Unionists ('utterly ruin the Scottish financial sector' etc).

The problem I think is that Brexit is undoubtedly going to make Britain generally worse off for no discernibly good reason yet the constant catastrophising (have I made up this word why is my autocorrect having a meltdown) means that things just getting gradually worse is viewed as a success.

There really has to be a comprehensive analysis of just how badly every single person involved with Remain before and after the referendum made a complete arse of it.

[bendan]

1 minute ago, speckled tangerine said:

I would say that if UK beef prices are high, but comparable Irish beef is going for 20/25% less, I can't see how this would be a good thing for farmers here. 

Incidentally, my brother in law is worried about this crazy Australian deal. Why? Because they can undercut Irish prices by another 20%. 

The consumer will get a cheap product, but not necessarily a high quality product. Scott Morrison is laughing. Nobody else is.

You seem to be contradicting your earlier post.

Why would higher UK prices be bad for Scottish farmers? In the past the Irish price held down the UK price. Now non-tariff barriers allow a gap. Australian beef will be more competitive, but it will still face non-tariff barriers. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

57 minutes ago, speckled tangerine said:

Who's laughing?

The fishing and agriculture sector is absolutely fucked. For all the schadenfreude of point and laugh at the Tory/Brexit supporting morons like Jimmy Buchan and the land owning Barbour set, that's rural areas and local folk right in the shit. Normal folk suffer more, in terms of direct job losses and knock on multipliers.

Alaistair Jack has a fucking cheek claiming it's a great deal. We all knew they would be fucked over and so it has come to pass. It's proper Stockholm syndrome if folk directly affected by policy supported by those they chose to vote for, despite the warnings and will continue to vote for them again and again.

Not funny ha ha. Sad and incredible more like.

Absolutely. I would be happily watching the leopards eating gammon faces from now til the cows come home, if it wasn't for the sad fact that the stupid, stupid, bastárds are dragging the rest of us (and our kids and grankids) down the stank with them.