Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Baxter Parp]

Thread of the forthcoming apocalypse.

 

[Dunfermline Don]

You have got to remember that everything bad about Brexit will be the EUs fault and any problems as a result of Scotland going independent will be because of the Scots.
It is never England’s fault!

[bendan]

10 hours ago, GiGi said:

I need a new monitor and all the decent 1440p monitors appear to be sold out or stupidly expensive in the UK. I spotted a good deal on Amazon FR but looking it up, you'd add 14% in third country tariff, then 20% VAT on top of the total of the item+14%, plus shipping costs. Meaning buying clothes/electronics/whatever from the EU has really become around 40% more expensive overnight.

 

The situation seems very confusing, but what is this 14% third country tariff? And do the French charge local VAT and then you pay UK VAT on top of that?

[GiGi]

7 minutes ago, bendan said:

The situation seems very confusing, but what is this 14% third country tariff? And do the French charge local VAT and then you pay UK VAT on top of that?

I had to dig up what I was buying on the UK government website, but basically any goods you buy from a non-UK country is classed as a third country when applying import tariffs which vary by product, then UK VAT of 20% is applied.

It's explained a bit better here https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/jan/21/eu-website-purchases-the-import-charges-uk-customers-have-to-pay

[GiGi]

Also here is the page I eventually found (fucking nightmare, this) telling me how the tariffs work

https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/8528590020

 

Quote

 

Import

The commodity code for importing is 8528590020.

Goods are subject to Value added tax (20.00 %).

Importing from outside the UK is subject to a third country duty of 14.00 % unless subject to other measures.

 

 

[bendan]

18 minutes ago, GiGi said:

I had to dig up what I was buying on the UK government website, but basically any goods you buy from a non-UK country is classed as a third country when applying import tariffs which vary by product, then UK VAT of 20% is applied.

It's explained a bit better here https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/jan/21/eu-website-purchases-the-import-charges-uk-customers-have-to-pay

A computer monitor would be 0% tariff. For it to be 14% it would have to have a tv/entertainment function.

VAT is certainly 20%, but that's same as before - I can't see why you'd be paying it twice.

Edit to add: It's still going to be more than before, because someone has to do customs declarations/clearance and they are going to charge you for it.

Edited January 27, 2021 by bendan

[GiGi]

8 minutes ago, bendan said:

A computer monitor would be 0% tariff. For it to be 14% it would have to have a tv/entertainment function.

VAT is certainly 20%, but that's same as before - I can't see why you'd be paying it twice.

Not according to the government website, buying from outside the UK attracts the extra import tax unless you're seeing extra info that I'm not. See the link above.

Also I think on the likes of Amazon fr or de previously the prices would have been inclusive of VAT, whereas now it would be added when reaching here.

If you or anyone else knows for sure I'd be really happy to know so I can calculate before making a purchase.

[bendan]

9 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Not according to the government website, buying from outside the UK attracts the extra import tax unless you're seeing extra info that I'm not. See the link above.

Also I think on the likes of Amazon fr or de previously the prices would have been inclusive of VAT, whereas now it would be added when reaching here.

If you or anyone else knows for sure I'd be really happy to know so I can calculate before making a purchase.

Information technology products are (generally) tariff free as a result of:

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/inftec_e/inftec_e.htm

The key point is then how to differentiate:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/classifying-monitors-for-import-and-export#classifying-monitors-other-than-the-crt-type---legal-precedents

There are probably products that straddle the two functions, but most manufacturers will make a monitor that is clearly for primary use as a monitor in order to avoid tariffs.

On VAT, would amazon.fr really quote the price excluding VAT?

Edited January 27, 2021 by bendan

[GiGi]

15 minutes ago, bendan said:

Information technology products are (generally) tariff free as a result of:

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/inftec_e/inftec_e.htm

The key point is then how to differentiate:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/classifying-monitors-for-import-and-export#classifying-monitors-other-than-the-crt-type---legal-precedents

There are probably products that straddle the two functions, but most manufacturers will make a monitor that is clearly for primary use as a monitor in order to avoid tariffs.

On VAT, would amazon.fr really quote the price excluding VAT?

Ah well that makes a big difference.

Seen this also "Online marketplaces such as Amazon collect the VAT on the retailer’s behalf and the item from Europe can be sent as before." so it looks like you're right.

So basically if I was buying a monitor quoted at 400 euro on Amazon.fr that should be all I pay other than delivery? (Edit - unless you really do pay VAT twice now)

Edited January 27, 2021 by GiGi

[bendan]

4 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Ah well that makes a big difference.

Seen this also "Online marketplaces such as Amazon collect the VAT on the retailer’s behalf and the item from Europe can be sent as before." so it looks like you're right.

So basically if I was buying a monitor quoted at 400 euro on Amazon.fr that should be all I pay other than delivery?

In theory, yes, but delivery will now include a cost of clearing customs and I think you'd be in danger of additional fees being added that weren't obvious at the time of ordering. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from outside the UK at the moment because the delivery companies are struggling. Even in the long term, I'm not sure I'd buy something from the EU that wasn't produced in the EU.

Edited January 27, 2021 by bendan

[GiGi]

18 minutes ago, bendan said:

In theory, yes, but delivery will now include a cost of clearing customs and I think you'd be in danger of additional fees being added that weren't obvious at the time of ordering. Personally, I wouldn't buy anything from outside the UK at the moment because the delivery companies are struggling. Even in the long term, I'm not sure I'd buy something from the EU that wasn't produced in the EU.

Aye, it sounds like it's going be a huge pain in the dick and no doubt there are going to be a pile of hidden or unexplained charges, on top of taking about 4 months to get through customs.

Great job all round from Boris and chums.

[HTG]

46 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Aye, it sounds like it's going be a huge pain in the dick and no doubt there are going to be a pile of hidden or unexplained charges, on top of taking about 4 months to get through customs.

Great job all round from Boris and chums.

This sort of exchange is probably being replicated across the country where (relatively) sensible people are having to research and understand the nuances of buying anything from the EU. It's a decent representation of a catastrofuck given that plenty of people won't have the time, patience or tenacity to follow this through for one off purchases. In the end, they'll swamp the Internet and delivery companies with complaints to the point where those companies just take the options to purchase offline. Not to worry though, we can pick wild fruit from local hedgerows instead of buying tech, shoes or whatever. Rule Britannia etc. 

[madwullie]

5 minutes ago, HTG said:

This sort of exchange is probably being replicated across the country where (relatively) sensible people are having to research and understand the nuances of buying anything from the EU. It's a decent representation of a catastrofuck given that plenty of people won't have the time, patience or tenacity to follow this through for one off purchases. In the end, they'll swamp the Internet and delivery companies with complaints to the point where those companies just take the options to purchase offline. Not to worry though, we can pick wild fruit from local hedgerows instead of buying tech, shoes or whatever. Rule Britannia etc. 

I for one love my new footwear made from potato skins. Sick of all this moaning. Adapt people! /s

[GiGi]

21 minutes ago, HTG said:

This sort of exchange is probably being replicated across the country where (relatively) sensible people are having to research and understand the nuances of buying anything from the EU. It's a decent representation of a catastrofuck given that plenty of people won't have the time, patience or tenacity to follow this through for one off purchases. In the end, they'll swamp the Internet and delivery companies with complaints to the point where those companies just take the options to purchase offline. Not to worry though, we can pick wild fruit from local hedgerows instead of buying tech, shoes or whatever. Rule Britannia etc. 

I noticed the BBC comments on some articles are starting to go a bit anti brexit now, having been strongly pro-Brexit before, but still a few "well just buy British" remarks. It hasn't sunk in yet to your average boomer that the UK doesn't make anything so almost everything we consume from food and drink to electronics is imported.

[GiGi]

Just out of interest I called the government import and export enquiry line to ask them how it would work from buying from Amazon in Europe and listed the charges you get at checkout. They said it sounds like VAT and import duty are calculated at their end and shouldn't be charged again when crossing the border however varies on retailer and type of goods. The guy I spoke to gave a lot of "I think so" answers though, even he wasn't sure.

[bendan]

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

Just out of interest I called the government import and export enquiry line to ask them how it would work from buying from Amazon in Europe and listed the charges you get at checkout. They said it sounds like VAT and import duty are calculated at their end and shouldn't be charged again when crossing the border however varies on retailer and type of goods. The guy I spoke to gave a lot of "I think so" answers though, even he wasn't sure.

Government helplines are generally shite for any kind of technical question. I had HMRC once give me 'advice' that would have landed me a tax bill of about 25k if I had believed them.

It's a pish situation with buying online from the EU now, but in a lot of cases being highlighted the stuff has actually come from China. There are probably more efficient ways of getting it to the UK.

[strichener]

6 hours ago, HTG said:

This sort of exchange is probably being replicated across the country where (relatively) sensible people are having to research and understand the nuances of buying anything from the EU. It's a decent representation of a catastrofuck given that plenty of people won't have the time, patience or tenacity to follow this through for one off purchases. In the end, they'll swamp the Internet and delivery companies with complaints to the point where those companies just take the options to purchase offline. Not to worry though, we can pick wild fruit from local hedgerows instead of buying tech, shoes or whatever. Rule Britannia etc. 

Tbf.  Anyone that has bought from outside the EU previously would also be in the same situation.  The reality is that people dig round  the Internet and see something that looks £5 cheaper and expect that it will be £5 cheaper when they take it in the door.  Chinese companies have not helped by completely ignoring tarrifs and vat.  

Buy from Gearbest or eGlobal and there is a good chance that you've already had to pay tarrifs.

[SANTAN]

I'm surprised this story hasn't been discussed more on here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55838272

What an almighty row. EU official saying first come first serve works at the butchers but not in contracts.

60% shortfall on delivery apparantly. 

[John Lambies Doos]

I'm surprised this story hasn't been discussed more on here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55838272
What an almighty row. EU official saying first come first serve works at the butchers but not in contracts.
60% shortfall on delivery apparantly. 

.

[coprolite]

21 hours ago, strichener said:

Tbf.  Anyone that has bought from outside the EU previously would also be in the same situation.  The reality is that people dig round  the Internet and see something that looks £5 cheaper and expect that it will be £5 cheaper when they take it in the door.  Chinese companies have not helped by completely ignoring tarrifs and vat.  

Buy from Gearbest or eGlobal and there is a good chance that you've already had to pay tarrifs.

But they wouldn't have had to pay extra to buy those goods from the EU before would they? Tarrifs being charged twice makes it more expensive than them being charged once.