Pet Jeden Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Fishermen r stoopid. Why does the UK’s £9 bn pa net contribution need to be sent to Brussels, for just half of it to be doled back out to UK projects like these? Very inefficient. If the UK wants to support fishing, it can cut out the middleman and do it directly. I think rational people can work out just who is stoopid, Parp Edited February 4, 2020 by Pet Jeden 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utter Roaster Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Meanwhile, in the land of clogs and windmills... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-51363108 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: Why does the UK’s £9 bn pa net contribution need to be sent to Brussels, for just half of it to be doled back out to UK projects like these? Very inefficient. If the UK wants to support fishing, it can cut out the middleman and do it directly. I think rational people can work out just who is stoopid, Parp The point is that the UK doesn’t want to support fishing. It doesn’t give a f**k about fishing. That money would never have been within two feet of Fraserburgh if it was in the UK governments hands. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Jambomo said: The point is that the UK doesn’t want to support fishing. It doesn’t give a f**k about fishing. That money would never have been within two feet of Fraserburgh if it was in the UK governments hands. No. The point is that these waters belong to the UK as much as the beaches on the Costa del Sol belong to Spain and the western Alps belong to France. We are not demanding that they should give up a part of their territory to the UK are we? Maybe we should! It’s up to the UK government to decide how much it wants to subsidise UK fishermen fishing in its waters and landing their catches in UK harbours. But I do accept that it’s evens money that the UK government will indeed do the dirty on the fishermen once again in return for the EU removing their gun from the head of financial and other services (which are not WTO protected) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resk Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 We have a common fishing ground because fish don't stay in the exclusive economic zone of any one country and the stocks need to be managed cooperatively. You can criticise that model with some justification but "they're our fish" is not a grown up position.Build a wall in the sea IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Build a wall in the sea IMO. Well that’s just silly! What will we do about flying fish?!? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: No. The point is that these waters belong to the UK as much as the beaches on the Costa del Sol belong to Spain and the western Alps belong to France. We are not demanding that they should give up a part of their territory to the UK are we? Maybe we should! It’s up to the UK government to decide how much it wants to subsidise UK fishermen fishing in its waters and landing their catches in UK harbours. But I do accept that it’s evens money that the UK government will indeed do the dirty on the fishermen once again in return for the EU removing their gun from the head of financial and other services (which are not WTO protected) You are arguing different things. The point of those signs is acknowledging EU funding on Fraserburgh projects. You asked why we send over all that money and not cut out the middle man by having the UK fund it. My point is that the only reason Fraserburgh projects get that money, is because it’s coming from the EU, the UK government would not have funded anything there. Who owns the fishing water is not relevant in this argument, it’s only about who funded the Fraserburgh projects. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 No. The point is that these waters belong to the UK as much as the beaches on the Costa del Sol belong to Spain and the western Alps belong to France. We are not demanding that they should give up a part of their territory to the UK are we?Gibraltar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 57 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Gibraltar. What's your point? The people of Gibraltar have the right to decide to be part of Spain or not. Just as the people of the Falklands have the right to decide to be part of Argentina or not. Just as the people of Catalunya have the right to decide to be part of Spain or not.Just as the people of Northern Ireland have right to decide to be part of the UK or not. Just as the people of Scotland have the right to decide whether to be part of the UK or not. I like to think I am consistent in my views on democracy. How about you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Jambomo said: You are arguing different things. The point of those signs is acknowledging EU funding on Fraserburgh projects. You asked why we send over all that money and not cut out the middle man by having the UK fund it. My point is that the only reason Fraserburgh projects get that money, is because it’s coming from the EU, the UK government would not have funded anything there. Who owns the fishing water is not relevant in this argument, it’s only about who funded the Fraserburgh projects. You think if EU grants were not available, UK grants would never fill that void? From a UK point of view it makes no sense awarding grants with Treasury money when the EU offers grants (with UK money) for the same thing. That would be daft. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: What is match funding. It's non EU funding e.g. Scot Gov (or private investment?) But even if total project costs were being split only between the EU and Scot Gov, then it still makes sense to maximise the EU contribution that you have already funded, doesn't it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Well that’s just silly! What will we do about flying fish?!? Put up signs saying 'No Fly Fishing or Flying Fish' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 6 hours ago, MixuFixit said: We have a common fishing ground because fish don't stay in the exclusive economic zone of any one country and the stocks need to be managed cooperatively. You can criticise that model with some justification but "they're our fish" is not a grown up position. Try telling that to Iceland. Do they let all-comers freely fish their waters? Conservation is a different issue and I think you know that. But that is something to be agreed between the UK and EU. The only reason EU boats are entitled to land 60% of UK water fish is because the UK surrendered sovereignty of it’s waters as part of the price of getting in to the Single Market. And btw, I will be making exactly the same argument as between Scotland and the UK if/when we gain independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: You think if EU grants were not available, UK grants would never fill that void? Pretty much. There will be plenty of UK grants, but how those grants are awarded and distributed will be entirely at their discretion. Do you honestly think they would fund improvements to Fraserburgh projects as the EU did? There’s no way any UK money would have been anywhere near it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Jambomo said: Pretty much. There will be plenty of UK grants, but how those grants are awarded and distributed will be entirely at their discretion. Do you honestly think they would fund improvements to Fraserburgh projects as the EU did? There’s no way any UK money would have been anywhere near it. Yes. Scot Gov probably match funded. See Mixu's earlier point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Pet Jeden said: Try telling that to Iceland. Do they let all-comers freely fish their waters? Conservation is a different issue and I think you know that. But that is something to be agreed between the UK and EU. The only reason EU boats are entitled to land 60% of UK water fish is because the UK surrendered sovereignty of it’s waters as part of the price of getting in to the Single Market. And btw, I will be making exactly the same argument as between Scotland and the UK if/when we gain independence. Hmmm. Citation needed, obviously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: Hmmm. Citation needed, obviously. Google is your friend, Joey. Go read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 2 hours ago, MixuFixit said: Not why match funding exists and therefore unlikely to be true Match funding is to protect the EU from backing donkeys and looking like plonkers all on their own. And to ensure somebody else takes the first hit if things go pear-shaped. The same principle applies to most public money grants. And Bank lending. Don't see what your point is, Mixu. Parp was claiming that fishermen are stupid because the only reason Fraserburgh Harbour got improved was because of EU grants. I say pish. Half the money would have come from somewhere else and even the money the EU did put in partly came from the UK in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Fishermen r stoopid 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, AB de Villiers said: My man Mixu’s resolve appears to be wearing thinner by the week. Pre-GE he was one of the few Natters that could form a coherent and sensible argument, not resorting to ‘Tories are c***s’ every post. Now, after his warning for the tragic ‘dribbling simpleton-gate’ he appears to be dropping hopeful one liners. Starting to hope big Boris allows indyref2 to take place, just to give him some much needed breathing space. "Why is it that every Unionist is deemed a troll?" -AB de Villiers Edited February 5, 2020 by Baxter Parp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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