Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[welshbairn]

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Yeah this. They have played a big role in Brexit but its getting towards time to extricate themselves from this mess and change the narrative to how us and Emgland have diverged so far at such a basic constitutional level.

It will never be anyones fault except the voters of England that we get Tory rule.

 

28 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Yeah this. They have played a big role in Brexit but its getting towards time to extricate themselves from this mess and change the narrative to how us and Emgland have diverged so far at such a basic constitutional level.

It will never be anyones fault except the voters of England that we get Tory rule.

 

46 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I dare say the SNP have considered that, and worked out that the best way to protect the people they represent is by increasing the number of SNP MP's, putting on pressure for a 2nd  referendum, and gaining independence.

 

 

100% the above. Parliament is gridlocked, BJ is behaving like a tinpot dictator surrounded by psychopaths such as Pitel and Javid, then on the other side you've got Corbyn who doesn't appear to have a view on anything and in between you've got an abundance of MP's both left and right who have no viewpoint, morals, principles or loyalty to their parties or constituents.

In a nutshell it's a shambles and one that's unlikely to go away irrespective of a GE or Brexit outcomes.

As a Scot I just want us to get as far away from this mob as we possibly can, ok, not everyone agrees with the SNP or their policies, however at least we in Scotland would be in a position to change that where as at the moment we're being dragged ever closer to a banana republic where the inequality widens by the day and the standard of living for many declines by the day and our voices means nothing.

The time for action is now, as months / years of inaction has basically got us into this current horrific predicament and something really has to be done about that and quickly................

[Granny Danger]

The SNP should be digging in and saying that they won’t facilitate a GE until there’s a further referendum, whether that’s linked to a ‘deal’ or not is irrelevant.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

14 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The SNP should be digging in and saying that they won’t facilitate a GE until there’s a further referendum, whether that’s linked to a ‘deal’ or not is irrelevant.

That's also possible, but here's an inherent danger in that for the SNP.

The country as a whole is absolutely sick of the whole Brexit shambles, and I reckon most people want it over and done with, whether remain or leave. 

As much as I hate to say this, the Tories under Johnson have effectively dictated the narrative of Brexit over the last 6 months. Yes, Parliament is a handbrake on Johnson's madness, but the down side to that is that the court of public opinion looks to be swinging heavily in the Tories favour. 

The upcoming GE will gave the British voting public and chance to out the frustrations of the last few years, and find someone to blame. At this precise moment in time...whether rightly or wrongly...it looks like Labour are going to take the brunt of voter's frustrations and be battered electorally into a thousand pieces.

IMHO, it's correct for the SNP to distance themselves from Labour before voters in Scotland start to punish them. 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bob Mahelp

[DrewDon]

The Lib Dems have tried seventeen times for a second referendum in this Parliament. The numbers simply don't exist. There is no chance that a Parliament with a majority for this deal, even at second reading, will suddenly conjure up a majority for another referendum.

[Jacksgranda]

39 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I remember that cover

[Granny Danger]

10 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

That's also possible, but here's an inherent danger in that for the SNP.

The country as a whole is absolutely sick of the whole Brexit shambles, and I reckon most people want it over and done with, whether remain or leave. 

As much as I hate to say this, the Tories under Johnson have effectively dictated the narrative of Brexit over the last 6 months. Yes, Parliament is a handbrake on Johnson's madness, but the down side to that is that the court of public opinion looks to be swinging heavily in the Tories favour. 

The upcoming GE will gave the British voting public and chance to out the frustrations of the last few years, and find someone to blame. At this precise moment in time...whether rightly or wrongly...it looks like Labour are going to take the brunt of voter's frustrations and be battered electorally into a thousand pieces.

IMHO, it's correct for the SNP to distance themselves from Labour before voters in Scotland start to punish them. 

 

The problem is a GE is not going to reflect people’s thinking on Brexit; at least in part due to FPTP.  A poll the other day said that most folk thought leaving the EU was a bad idea; that opinion will not translate into the election result.

In a few months we will be able to determine whether or not this was a good move by the SNP.

[ICTJohnboy]

4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I remember that cover

 

Me too.

Sadly it's coming up for 53 years old now.

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Me too.

Sadly it's coming up for 53 years old now.

Not as old as I am...(obviously!)

[ICTJohnboy]

2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The problem is a GE is not going to reflect people’s thinking on Brexit; at least in part due to FPTP.  A poll the other day said that most folk thought leaving the EU was a bad idea; that opinion will not translate into the election result.

In a few months we will be able to determine whether or not this was a good move by the SNP.

 

I'd still say that combining a GE along with a 2nd referendum wouldn't be impossible to arrange.

[DrewDon]

Pretty much this. 

 

[ICTJohnboy]

Govt to bring forward a vote tonight (under the fixed term act) for a GE on Dec 12.

What a fucking waste of time.

[Aladdin]

Reckon the SNP/Lib Dem plan will be the way forward.

Both parties must be calculating the risk of a Tory majority against a possible anti-Tory coalition which may be possible depending on how well Labour defend their seats and inroads into the Tory vote made by Lib Dems and Brexit party.

f**k all else is getting done anyway so might as well go for it.

[ICTJohnboy]

Shadow Cabinet meeting just now to (allegedly) agree on a plan as to how they should respond to these demands for an election.

These demands that are coming from almost everyone in Parliament except them!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by ICTJohnboy

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Let's not forget as well that Brexit is effectively done and dusted.

The government and the EU have done a deal which was approved by the HoC (at its initial stages)......with Labour MP's siding with the Tories and helping them to push this through.

There's no majority in the House for a 2nd referendum, and there never will be.  The best that the Remain side can hope for are amendments to the bill which will make Brexit a little easier to swallow.

Nicola Sturgeon is absolutely correct in saying that the best way to get a good deal for the country is to take on the Tories in a GE. As it stands at the moment, the SNP are on course to decimate the Tories in Scotland. 

Other parties have got to stand up and be counted in the rest of the UK. 

[ICTJohnboy]

17 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Let's not forget as well that Brexit is effectively done and dusted.

The government and the EU have done a deal which was approved by the HoC (at its initial stages)......with Labour MP's siding with the Tories and helping them to push this through.

There's no majority in the House for a 2nd referendum, and there never will be.  The best that the Remain side can hope for are amendments to the bill which will make Brexit a little easier to swallow.

Nicola Sturgeon is absolutely correct in saying that the best way to get a good deal for the country is to take on the Tories in a GE. As it stands at the moment, the SNP are on course to decimate the Tories in Scotland. 

Other parties have got to stand up and be counted in the rest of the UK. 

 

It's not done and dusted. Boris pulled it when the vote on the timetable for his deal scuppered his plans. The SNP/Lib Dem bill which would lead to a GE on Dec 9th, would effectively stop Boris from bringing back his crap deal.

The only reason the initial vote on the deal passed was caused by North of England labour MPs in vote leave areas, voting for it in an attempt to save face with their constituents. Would they have voted it through if the option for voting on the Timetable had not been there? 

 

 

[Granny Danger]

35 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Let's not forget as well that Brexit is effectively done and dusted.

The government and the EU have done a deal which was approved by the HoC (at its initial stages)......with Labour MP's siding with the Tories and helping them to push this through.

There's no majority in the House for a 2nd referendum, and there never will be.  The best that the Remain side can hope for are amendments to the bill which will make Brexit a little easier to swallow.

Nicola Sturgeon is absolutely correct in saying that the best way to get a good deal for the country is to take on the Tories in a GE. As it stands at the moment, the SNP are on course to decimate the Tories in Scotland. 

Other parties have got to stand up and be counted in the rest of the UK. 

That first line is total nonsense.

[beefybake]

2 hours ago, WATTOO said:

 

 

100% the above. Parliament is gridlocked, BJ is behaving like a tinpot dictator surrounded by psychopaths such as Pitel and Javid, then on the other side you've got Corbyn who doesn't appear to have a view on anything and in between you've got an abundance of MP's both left and right who have no viewpoint, morals, principles or loyalty to their parties or constituents.

In a nutshell it's a shambles and one that's unlikely to go away irrespective of a GE or Brexit outcomes.

As a Scot I just want us to get as far away from this mob as we possibly can, ok, not everyone agrees with the SNP or their policies, however at least we in Scotland would be in a position to change that where as at the moment we're being dragged ever closer to a banana republic where the inequality widens by the day and the standard of living for many declines by the day and our voices means nothing.

The time for action is now, as months / years of inaction has basically got us into this current horrific predicament and something really has to be done about that and quickly................

Meanwhile, I see the role of the SNP at Westminster as taking a responsible course as members of that parliament. 

Right now, I don't quite see the rationale behind getting together with Swinson. The LD's have nothing to lose, they are  at root a party that betrayed

their supporters when they had a sniff of power, they haven't reformed themselves, and they have a tiny handful of MP's.

Sturgeon has always been clear that the way forward was to achieve independence the clean way.... can't recall the words..., was it something like the

Golden Option.   ?  Facilitating another Tory government, I don't think that was part of it.

 

Anyway, right now, I don't quite see the rationale.

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by beefybake

[Big Fifer]

I can't quite work out the best way to google this. I see Labour are planning on abstaining today on what is likely to be the Conservatives general election bill for the 12th. What % of votes are required to have been cast for a bill to take affect? Does it need 2/3rds of the house to vote Yes or No? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, beefybake said:

Meanwhile, I see the role of the SNP at Westminster as taking a responsible course as members of that parliament. 

Right now, I don't quite see the rationale behind getting together with Swinson. The LD's have nothing to lose, they are  at root a party that betrayed

their supporters when they had a sniff of power, they haven't reformed themselves, and they have a tiny handful of MP's.

Sturgeon has always been clear that the way forward was to achieve independence the clean way.... can't recall the words..., was it something like the

Golden Option.   ?  facilitating another Tory government, I don't think that was part of it.

 

Anyway, right now, I don't quite see the rationale.

 

If there is a GE and the Tories ultimately gain a majority then that's Democracy.

We may not agree with it and we may not be happy, however this charade in Westminster can't be allowed to continue indefinitely. Basically the whole country is gridlocked, uncertainty abounds and the real life issues aren't being tackled because everyone is caught up in this madness.

Labour and Corbyn are a joke, Swinson and the Lib Dems are a bunch of snakes who can't be trusted with anything and the Tories are, well the Tories, we all know what they stand for and we all know the damage they're going to do should they gain their majority, however if people are stupid enough to vote them in, then what can we do ?

Who knows, maybe a few years of real pain and suffering is what's needed to bring people back to their senses ????