Granny Danger Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Reading between the lines, the EU have set the terms and Johnson is doing everything he can to sell it to the DUP and ERG. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 45 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Reading between the lines, the EU have set the terms and Johnson is doing everything he can to sell it to the DUP and ERG. The ERG appear to be almost cock-a-hoop tonight, whilst the mood from the DUP is a sullen silence. There will be reasons for that, and my take on it is that it is dawning on the DUP that they are about to be royally shafted, not just by Johnson but also by the ERG and their fellow Spartans. The 'deal' on offer from the EU will almost certainly be as bad or worse than May's, but the ERG have I reckon realised that there is no road left and they will spin this latest offering as a triumph, rather than risk losing Brexit altogether; in that case the DUP may be about to find out just how little the Tories value their input or support. I'm also suspecting that there was personal stuff in play with May, especially following her electoral disaster, and the ERG will help carry Johnson aloft as he will be in an almost impregnable electoral position if he delivers his promised Brexit deal - tribalism will always trump principle at Westminster. For the rest of us hoping to avoid any sort of Brexit, Saturday could be crucial; if any deal passes without an amendment on a second referendum then we are fucked. I am growing less confident by the hour. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 If the ERG are happy with, and optimistic that this so called "deal" could succeed, that should be reason enough for Labour and the rest of the opposition to vote against it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneal Down Caster Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 JRM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: The ERG appear to be almost cock-a-hoop tonight, whilst the mood from the DUP is a sullen silence. There will be reasons for that, and my take on it is that it is dawning on the DUP that they are about to be royally shafted, not just by Johnson but also by the ERG and their fellow Spartans. The 'deal' on offer from the EU will almost certainly be as bad or worse than May's, but the ERG have I reckon realised that there is no road left and they will spin this latest offering as a triumph, rather than risk losing Brexit altogether; in that case the DUP may be about to find out just how little the Tories value their input or support. I'm also suspecting that there was personal stuff in play with May, especially following her electoral disaster, and the ERG will help carry Johnson aloft as he will be in an almost impregnable electoral position if he delivers his promised Brexit deal - tribalism will always trump principle at Westminster. For the rest of us hoping to avoid any sort of Brexit, Saturday could be crucial; if any deal passes without an amendment on a second referendum then we are fucked. I am growing less confident by the hour. ERG must be thinking that a deal and leaving will win the election for Johnson, even with a delay to get the technicalities and legislation through, and they'll be able to force through a hard Canada style settlement and turn Britain into a zero workers rights and financial and environmental regulations free low tax paradise. Labour's choices are to combine with the opposition to force a referendum on the Johnson deal or remain, try to vote down a deal in the hope that the Benn Act will work and they'll win an election, or vote for the deal on its own, which is only about withdrawal, win the election and force a soft brexit. The biggest thing is not so much the deal, it's about who wins the election, even if there's a referendum first. I'm not even sure that remain would win a referendum. And if the Tories win there will be very few one nation, pro Europe types left. A rabidly anti Europe Tory party governing Britain after a referendum saying remain would probably be the worst of all nightmares for the EU. So basically we're fucked unless Labour gets power, hopefully with the assistance of the SNP in exchange for signing Section 30. Edited October 16, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 ERG must be thinking that a deal and leaving will win the election for Johnson, even with a delay to get the technicalities and legislation through, and they'll be able to force through a hard Canada style settlement and turn Britain into a zero workers rights and financial and environmental regulations free low tax paradise. Labour's choices are to combine with the opposition to force a referendum on the Johnson deal or remain, try to vote down a deal in the hope that the Benn Act will work and they'll win an election, or vote for the deal on its own, which is only about withdrawal, win the election and force a soft brexit. The biggest thing is not so much the deal, it's about who wins the election, even if there's a referendum first. I'm not even sure that remain would win a referendum. And if the Tories win there will be very few one nation, pro Europe types left. A rabidly anti Europe Tory party governing Britain after a referendum saying remain would probably be the worst of all nightmares for the EU. So basically we're fucked unless Labour gets power, hopefully with the assistance of the SNP in exchange for signing Section 30.The Tories I can understand and predict, it's the opposition that gives me the absolute shiters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 7 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: The ERG appear to be almost cock-a-hoop tonight, whilst the mood from the DUP is a sullen silence. There will be reasons for that, and my take on it is that it is dawning on the DUP that they are about to be royally shafted, not just by Johnson but also by the ERG and their fellow Spartans. The 'deal' on offer from the EU will almost certainly be as bad or worse than May's, but the ERG have I reckon realised that there is no road left and they will spin this latest offering as a triumph, rather than risk losing Brexit altogether; in that case the DUP may be about to find out just how little the Tories value their input or support. I'm also suspecting that there was personal stuff in play with May, especially following her electoral disaster, and the ERG will help carry Johnson aloft as he will be in an almost impregnable electoral position if he delivers his promised Brexit deal - tribalism will always trump principle at Westminster. For the rest of us hoping to avoid any sort of Brexit, Saturday could be crucial; if any deal passes without an amendment on a second referendum then we are fucked. I am growing less confident by the hour. Quite late on in the discussions the EU27 were expressing the need for the U.K. to agree to regulatory alignment. They do not want a county on the geographical periphery of Europe with such a large economy undercutting other countries. I hope their insistence on this is part of any deal and that it’s not left to the future trade agreement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 DUP have just issued a statement saying they cannot support the ‘deal’ as it stands. I cannot see the EU compromising further. Hopefully this kills it off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 The DUP could show Fat Eck, Angus Robertson and wee neddy Mhari exactly what it means to be The Only Show In Town. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: DUP have just issued a statement saying they cannot support the ‘deal’ as it stands. I cannot see the EU compromising further. Hopefully this kills it off. Of course they won't. Why should they? The EU will still get the blame for all this breaking down - again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Watching the news later last night and reporters were saying that the DUP were very down about the proposed deal while the ERG were almost cock a hoop. Hopefully this p***ks their fascist bubble and they start to accuse each other of betrayal and surrender. Delicious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 The DUP could show Fat Eck, Angus Robertson and wee neddy Mhari exactly what it means to be The Only Show In Town.^fawning over the bigots 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Watching the news later last night and reporters were saying that the DUP were very down about the proposed deal while the ERG were almost cock a hoop. Hopefully this p***ks their fascist bubble and they start to accuse each other of betrayal and surrender. Delicious. Johnson will now ignore the DUP, ask the EU not to extend, bring back that deal v no deal on Saturday and labour would be forced to back or abstain. I'd say Macron could be persuaded on this. He's clearly sick fed up of the Little Englanders 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 GIRFUY Mr. Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster f**k-Business f**k-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Girly-Swot Big-Girl’s-Blouse Chicken-frit Hulk-Smash Turds Hates-Arlene Johnson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, btb said: GIRFUY Mr. Boris Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster f**k-Business f**k-The-Families Get-Off-My-Fucking-Laptop Girly-Swot Big-Girl’s-Blouse Chicken-frit Hulk-Smash Turds Hates-Arlene Johnson Arlene Johnson? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: DUP have just issued a statement saying they cannot support the ‘deal’ as it stands. I cannot see the EU compromising further. Hopefully this kills it off. Today of all days, you can’t take at face value anything anyone says. Until the EU or Boris say deal is off or deal is finally on, everybody - EU, HMG, ERG, DUP, ROI, un-named sources etc, will all be saying things with a view to influencing late tweaks, or bolstering somebody’s negotiation position or keeping raging colleagues off their back. Chill. Believe nothing until maybe midnight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Boris Johnson is a c**t x infinity but he is some shagger, must be the only lad willing to f**k Arlene Foster and go public with it. Edited October 17, 2019 by dirty dingus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, dirty dingus said: Boris Johnson is a c**t x infinity but he is some shagger, must be the only lad willing to f**k Arlene Foster and go public with it. Might be fairer to say Arlene Foster's fucked him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Arlene Johnson? hates Arlene - it's just my little addition to Stewart Lee's joke. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 So here's a thing (and sorry to bring yet another thread back to independence) but I've never held with the view, most visibly espoused by Stuart Campbell, that the SNP should do a deal with the Tories to pass the Brexit deal for at least an s30 order for a referendum. If only because I believe Scottish voters would react poorly to what might be seen as a purely tactical move with little principle by the SNP. There is no point having a referendum if you can't win it. On the other hand, the deal Boris is trying to get though for N.Ireland looks now a lot like the paper the Scottish Government put out in 2016 about differentiating Scotland from the rUK over brexit. And I know that the Tories would never seriously dream of offering it, but if they did, and got EU buy in to differentiate Scotland willingly to get the votes to force differentiation on N.Ireland in spite of the DUP - would you take that? You lose the DUP and any Scottish Tory without a hope of career advancement but you still have a net gain of about 14.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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